Writing using Tengwar characters

[Rían]

Originally posted by katya
hey! well i am pretty sure my printer is not a scanner, but hey who knows. ill figure it out later. maybe i will use someone elses. anyhow, i usually do double the stem for capitals, if i even do them. hey by the way, i got out my calligraphy set. yay for me. it's fun to write with it.

Hi, katya - glad you're back! Have you seen our attachments? (which we got on with great difficulty! argh!) I sure wish you had a scanner. Hey, new printers are pretty cheap now just get one that's a printer/fax/copier/scanner. I really like the double stem thing now, too, for names and other emphasized words. That's a good idea to double the stem for capitals - think I'll try it. Calligraphy is fun, isn't it? Is it chisel-point pen things, or do you have real ink and pens with nibs (or whatever they're called). TC, have you tried the double stem thing?

[katya]

oh, it's real. the black i think is running out though. i used a lot of blue. calligraphy. fun.
ok a question on s curls. do you use them when they come after a vowel, and it so, how? i sometimes do a curl off of a carrier or some other crazy things. i just try and make it look nice.
hey by the way, do you use the numbers? if so, how do you do it? like a decimal system, or that other way?

[Rían]

I looked at the numbers discussion and my poor brain said NO WAY, so I just write the word for a number or just write the number in a pretty way. I am familiar with different bases, as I worked in computers and worked with base 2, octal (base 8) and hexidecimal (base 16), but I just didn't feel like going to the trouble of figuring out base 12 and putting the least sig. value on the left every time I wanted to write a number. Too much work!

I only use s-curls at the end of a word. The discussions say "especially common at the end of words", and there is room at the end of words to do fancy curls, so I just use them that way. I saw TC used one in the middle of a word, which is perfectly fine, but I just prefer not to. I do use the s-curl hanging off of a 'k' to make the letter 'x', though, like the example, and that is usually in the middle of a word.

I've never used a real calligraphy set, what's it like? Have you, TC?

[katya]

RÃ*an!!!!!!! I have edited this post to try to articulate what i meant to say. i included the original:

oh really? well i dont care what it is usually done like i like the s curls darn it. i do them all the time. they are addicting.

oh, really? I will have to remember that. but: i dont really think it matters what it is usually done like. it's only for my own amusment anyway and it feels better to not have to worry about it being perfect. i like the s curls because they are really pretty. they are addicting. I might try to find a new way of writing of writing my normal 's's though instead.

note: i didn't mean to say "i dont care": because i do. sorry again.

[Rían]

katya - so sorry, I think I came off as kinda stuck up with that "especially common" quote, and I did NOT mean it that way AT ALL! (darn keyboard) I was just putting it in as a FYI-kind-of-thing. I love the curls, and the reason I personally don't use them in the middle of words is that I can't do them justice to suit myself! Curl away wherever you want, people! I love to see them.

Funny thing that you like the ball point pens - the chisel point ones are nice, but I actually kind of prefer the plain pen look - it looks more - I don't know - like something a real elf might dash off in her diary. I like how my diary looks, different pens and different levels of neatness for each day - it looks just, kind of, like it's real in this world, if that makes sense. Like if I could just find the right place to travel to, I would see that kind of writing everywhere!

Do you guys use the tilde for "preceded by nasal of same column" thing yet? I like it, but sometimes forget to use it until it's too late and I've already written the 'n' or 'm' out. But I'm getting better, and I like the look of it. It just gives more of a variety look to the text, because there are so many stem and bow characters already.

[Rían]

hey, Sminty is browsing this forum - what's up, Sminty? I hope you are still working on Tengwar and we see you back here.

[katya]

oh i was not offended or anything. i sounded kind of rude myself though. please accept my apologies. i dont use the nasal thingy because it would be too much to worry myslef about. maybe some other time i will start using it. i usually write with a regular pen too. have you noticed this?:when i write things like "m"s in english i do it as if i were writing the n tegwa. i do a stem and two bows, instead of two little hump thingies. does that make sense?

[Snowdog]

Wow.. You all have really distanced me.... I make my crude Tengwar scratches.... This is one of the best threads on this site.

[Rían]

katya - no problem!

have you noticed this?:when i write things like "m"s in english i do it as if i were writing the n tegwa. i do a stem and two bows, instead of two little hump thingies. does that make sense?

YES! That's so funny that you do it, too! My biggest problem is when I write an 'm', I close it at the bottom, just like the 'm' tengwa. Also, when I am printing something (as opposed to cursive), I start to write the vowels over the following consonant! Funny!

Hey, Snowdog, glad to see you back! Have you decided to re-pick up Tengwar? I hope so. And if you have a scanner, you can show us your version of the famous s-curls! TinuvielChild and I just about threw our computers out the window trying to get our stuff scanned in, but we finally got it going. I wrote down all the gory details of scanning a page or so back, if it is any help. Hope to hear an update tomorrow! (hey, it's almost tomorrow now - rats! Up too late again on Entmoot )

[Menelvagor]

Hey, I just picked up tengwar again (started learning it when I first joined the 'Moot, but didn't have nearly as good resources). I've yet to rememorize, but I don't think it'll take too long. Rian, I loved the fish script you posted, that was great. One question though, when you were talking about the word 'guides,' could you have used character 35 or 36 for that? The second link has their uses listed differently (the first is closer to the quenyan mode, I think?) I tend to use those for multiple vowel sounds, but I'm not sure if it's correct. Could you write it "g" (character 8) with a "u" tehta above character 35, then #5 with an s-curl and the dot for the following "e"? Does that make sense?

[katya]

RÃ*an- i know i know. when i was learning cyrillic (which reminds me-i should practice) if i didnt know the letter for a vowel right away i would write out the next consonants right next to the one thinking i had only to write the vowel over top of it. By the way, if you haven't, see my edited quote above.

[Rían]

katya- OMGoodness, I just saw your edited post a few posts back - thank you so much for being concerned, but pleeese don't worry about it anymore!! I am not upset at all! Your first explanation made perfect sense, and I can see how I would have said something like what you said in your original post with a big smile and a mock-anger stamp of the foot (in other words, a funny comment). Drat these keyboard that make it hard to communicate. And looking back over my post, I can sure see how it came off like I was being a total snob *sigh*, which I never intended. Oh well. Thanks again for your concern

Anyway, I really got a kick out of how your Tengwar carries over into Cyrillic and English, because it carries over to my English, too, like I said. Funny!

I sure hope you can find a scanner soon, because I would really like to see some of your writing!

[Rían]

ps - I am not too happy with my s's, maybe I'll try to write them the other way around (i.e., #29 instead of #30). But when I tried #29 before, it always got in the way of my vowel marks. Well, I'll have to keep fiddling around with it. The word "lost" just looks so ugly the way I wrote it in my attachment - yuck. It should be a nicely sad-looking word, IMO, if that makes any sense!

I don't want to make up my own characters, though, because then I couldn't post back and forth with people in this thread without explaining my made-up character. Personally, I like to stick with the tengwar on the chart just because it's so fun to read someone else's writing and have them read mine. But of course you could make up your own, and then use the regular ones when you post here - kind of your own special elvish dialect!

[Rían]

Originally posted by Menelvagor
Hey, I just picked up tengwar again (started learning it when I first joined the 'Moot, but didn't have nearly as good resources). I've yet to rememorize, but I don't think it'll take too long. Rian, I loved the fish script you posted, that was great. One question though, when you were talking about the word 'guides,' could you have used character 35 or 36 for that? The second link has their uses listed differently (the first is closer to the quenyan mode, I think?) I tend to use those for multiple vowel sounds, but I'm not sure if it's correct. Could you write it "g" (character 8) with a "u" tehta above character 35, then #5 with an s-curl and the dot for the following "e"? Does that make sense?

Hey, it's the cat with the moving eyes! Cool! You guys have such clever avatars - how can you get them to move? Well, anyway, welcome, and I hope you come to enjoy the Tengwar as much as we do. Glad you like my fish - for some reason, when I finished writing the "sh" character, it reminded me of the mouth of a fish, and I just went from there... oh well, I guess Tengwar does strange things to your brain

I think you did look at the letter assignments for the Quenyan mode, which can be confusing. Hang on and I'll repost all of my favorite links for the English mode (I'll be popping back and forth editing this post to get them all in, I'll write a note at the end when I'm done). It might take awhile, as I'm popping in and out to help the kids with their homework while I'm posting. (thanks again, TC, for the help with the link stuff!)

In the meantime, however, I would also suggest you sit down with a large drink of your choice (my favs - Dr. Pepper for hot weather, hot tea with milk and a little sugar for cold ) and read thru this entire thread, if you haven't already, for we have covered lots of good stuff, including the whole Quenyan/English mode differences.

Best Summary Link IMHO : passagen

Good Supplementary link for sample word sounds : sounds

Link for modifiers: modifiers

Link for punctuation: punct

Calligraphy Link : callig

ok, all done finally! *whew*
Anyone else want to pitch in with their favorite sites and/or help for Menelvagor?

[Rían]

whoops, forgot to answer your "guides" question.

One question though, when you were talking about the word 'guides,' could you have used character 35 or 36 for that? The second link has their uses listed differently (the first is closer to the quenyan mode, I think?) I tend to use those for multiple vowel sounds, but I'm not sure if it's correct. Could you write it "g" (character 8) with a "u" tehta above character 35, then #5 with an s-curl and the dot for the following "e"? Does that make sense?

OK, I think this is the link you were looking at, is this right? quenya mode
And yes, like you thought, it is for Quenyan, not English mode. We have been dealing in English mode here, just because we (or at least I) don't know Quenya. So looking at the Quenyan chart (which is fascinating reading, with all the comments on the development of the letters!!), I can see how you got what you did. I'm assuming you were using char. 35 as an 'i', which is what it shows on the chart, as far as I can tell.

OH - it just finished printing out - I see now, you were using it as a diphthong! But one problem with that is that you would have to use the Quenyan vowel rule, which is you write the vowel over the preceding consonant, instead of the followingconsonant, as in the Sindarin and English mode. So it would be (at least, as far as I can make out - someone else correct me, if you think I'm wrong) : char. 8 with the .... hmmm, I suppose you wouldn't really need the preceding consonant rule here, though, because the vowel mark is over a vowel tengwa - hmmm. OK, I think your version would be right!

But for me, I like sticking with the English mode, and there doesn't seem to be any diphthong special characters. So I would just write it in one of the ways I did in my attachment. Whew! what a long-winded post. I hope it made sense. Please let me know what you think of all this.

[Rían]

Hi, TC, I see you're around - I hope your homework woes got better and you can post some more attachments soon! Good luck again on ballet tryouts on Saturday!

[TinuvielChild]

Sorry I haven't posted much lately. I've been bogged down with homework and practicing, and I haven't had time to get on the Entmoot. Gaaah...

[Rían]

Here, I'll throw some pretty s-curls your way ... *tosses big batch of lovely s-curls to cheer up TC *

[Snowdog]

Hey, Snowdog, glad to see you back! Have you decided to re-pick up Tengwar? I hope so. And if you have a scanner, you can show us your version of the famous s-curls!

I could do that, but I'm afraid my work is filled with errors and such... I will see what I can do.

[Rían]

Oh, we all make plenty of mistakes - don't let that stop you!

I really have trouble with 'd' and 'b' - for some reason, I often forget to close off my 'b', and when I reread what I wrote, I end up with some funny words! However, at least I can always add a stroke to close it off. It could be worse - if my problem was the other way, I couldn't take off the stroke to correct a 'b' to a 'd' (if that makes sense).