Tragedy in Spain

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Janny
The constant 'America is evil' stance is not really a constant... it's trendy to hate the US because you're 'stringing Blair along' and 'infringing on people's civil liberties', or something. Of course I'm sure a government with a more passive stand would be populary accused of allowing attacks to happen.

That is personal opinion with "stringing Blair along" and how are we infringing on people's civil liberties - can you you explain that?

As discussed in the hitorical trivia thread (plug ), it was already quite likely that the US would enter war with or without PH.

When? it was only a 30% approval for war at the time right before Pearl Harbor. We viewed it as a European war - just like it seems most Europeans feel that Al Qaeda and the other related terrorist groups are solely directed at America.

I'm a little confused by your stance vis-a-vis the new EU countries. Surely you're not denying that no progress is better than slight progress? Sure it may not be ideal but your view is like expecting females to reject the Representation of the People Act because it wasn't entirely fair. Progress, as a notion, is a gradual thing.

They weren't being welcomed into the EU as partial countries though. They were accepted into the EU as FULL members and NOW France and Germany are trying to change the rules afterward. That is the problem. i can't believe the number of Europeans who are saying - 'well they should just be happy they're let into the EU - it's better than nothing"

[Janny]

'Stringing Blair along' is a general quote used by the popular press, NOT my opinion, I personally think that the view is stupid. 'Infringment of civil liberties' is a reference to Camp X-Ray, which again, as a view, I disagree with.

It seems most Europeans feel that Al Qaeda and the other related terrorist groups are solely directed at America.

That is a bizarre view to take. Do you think that Spaniards think terrorist groups are solely attacking America? Do you think all the Londoners now fearful of attack, the British as a whole, the Japanese, the Australians etc threated by Al Qaeda think it's directed solely at America? Even the French are being threatened, and they objected to Iraq.

The new nations from Eastern Europe do gain out of this. Financially for a start, I believe it is to their benefit and detrimental the established countries.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Janny
That is a bizarre view to take. Do you think that Spaniards think terrorist groups are solely attacking America?

yes - because the Spanish think that the only reason they were attacked is for their support of America.

Do you think all the Londoners now fearful of attack, the British as a whole, the Japanese, the Australians etc threated by Al Qaeda think it's directed solely at America?

Those countries feel they are being targeted because of their support for America. That is Al Qaeda's goal - to seperate the allies from America - bring down America - and then attack the other countries. In the letter to France - it states very clearly that the friends of the US will recieve the same bombings that Spain just got unless they abondon America. It even states that now that Spain has changed it's government and is abandoning America - it will be spared anymore bombings - unless it goes back on it's word. I believe it said "they learned their lesson"

Even the French are being threatened, and they objected to Iraq.

The French are being threatened because of the headscarf ban. Even on French news - they are shocked that they are being targeted - because they felt they were safe from attack by not supporting the war in Iraq - this has been stated on their news.

The new nations from Eastern Europe do gain out of this. Financially for a start, I believe it is to their benefit and detrimental the established countries.

So in other words - they should get their votes watered down because they get finacial benefits and so forth? I'm trying to understand why everyone in Europe seems to think it is so acceptable to change the voting rules for the EU and why Eastern European countries should just be happy to be let in.

[sun-star]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I'm trying to understand why everyone in Europe seems to think it is so acceptable to change the voting rules for the EU and why Eastern European countries should just be happy to be let in.

Actually one of the reasons the draft constitution was not ratified (among many others) was because "everyone in Europe" did not find it acceptable. Janny and I are not representative of "everyone in Europe" - sorry, Janny

Can't believe how OT I am... Maybe we should discuss this in the EU thread or something - it's quite a complex and interesting argument.

[Nerdanel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
So in other words - they should get their votes watered down because they get finacial benefits and so forth? I'm trying to understand why everyone in Europe seems to think it is so acceptable to change the voting rules for the EU and why Eastern European countries should just be happy to be let in.

I don't think it's fair to say everyone in Europe. When I heard of the changing of the rules, I was so angry! It's so unfair!

I know it doesn't help if only I object to it, but at least not everyone in Europe think it's acceptable.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Nerdanel
I don't think it's fair to say everyone in Europe. When I heard of the changing of the rules, I was so angry! It's so unfair!

I know it doesn't help if only I object to it, but at least not everyone in Europe think it's acceptable.

Sorry - try not to use the word "everyone" - but at this point - everyone on the thread saw nothing wrong with reducing down the voting rights of the Eastern European countries in the EU. As for every European - I meant the ones who have been posting. So far the only real thing I have gotten is - "being in the Eu is better than nothing" or other similar comments.

Sun-Star - Jonathan did have an EU thread in here somewhere.

[Nerdanel]

OK, thanks for explaining. But now you can't use "everyone" anymore.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Nerdanel
OK, thanks for explaining. But now you can't use "everyone" anymore.

Just as long as people stop saying "Americans this and Americans that"

[Falagar]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Just as long as people stop saying "Americans this and Americans that"

Of course, can't blame those poor Mexicans, Canadians, Brazilians and all the others for what those USAmericans do.

USAmericans this and USAmericans that.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Falagar
Of course, can't blame those poor Mexicans, Canadians, Brazilians and all the others for what those USAmericans do.

USAmericans this and USAmericans that.

We're Americans - they aren't. They are either North Americans or South Americans. I'm not going with that new crap political stuff where all of a sudden it's wrong to be called an American.

[Janny]

I'm confused. Spaniards don't feel they are being targeted becasue they are being targeted because they back the US?

You're saying the other countries aren't fearful of attack because when it comes it's a bombing in England or France or Italy or Australia which targets the USA.

Wasn't that the point of the Coalition (which I support) that all the members are in it together? A terrorist attack is an attack primarily on that country and secondly an attack on the free societies of the coalition countries, not an attack primarily on the US and not at all an attack on the country that was bombed.