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Old 03-22-2003, 01:23 PM   #61
Ruinel
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Quote:
Originally posted by Artanis
Kids are a blessing, aren't they
Wow. I don't think I could read any of the HoME books in just a day, even with kids away and no other duties. Someone said here that you don't read the HoME books, you study them. That's how I feel too.
Too late, I'm afraid Aren't you curious also?
Blessing or curse, it depends on the day.
I'm a fast reader, or so I've been told. I read them.
Ack!!! Curious!!! Ack!!! *sputter* NO! Don't even go there! He's like a bottle of hot soda... open the bottle and there'll be a mess everywhere.
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Old 03-22-2003, 04:02 PM   #62
Lefty Scaevola
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He as king only for 18 years. He did not has a long time to cultivate a royal fan base. Heir apparents have less significance among immortals.
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Old 03-23-2003, 08:06 PM   #63
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Gollum Sauron comparison with Finrod Felagund
First, lets see a little background on Sauron:
Sauron was one of the Ainur, and was noble and good at the beginning. Of course Sauron was a former maiar of Aulë and had plenty of skill as a craftsmen, unlike FF.
From Morgoth’s Ring: Myths Transformed
Quote:
it had been his virtue (and therefore also the cause of his fall, and of his relapse) that he loved order and co-ordination, and disliked all confusion and wasteful friction.
He like Finrod Felagund, followed other beings. Sauron followed Morgoth, and Finrod followed Fëanor to Middle-earth. Both Morgoth and Fëanor were mightier beings than Sauron and Finrod.
Both Sauron and Finrod were lords of great realms in Middle-earth, and had great influence with the race of Men. While Finrod aided men and thought them good things, Sauron corrupted them into his service. Sauron of course, was the one responsible to hastening the Fall of Numenórë.
Finrod was of the house of Finarfin, and had golden hair, yet Sauron as en ëalar, could take any form he wished to appear, so he could look fairer than Finrod Felagund.
In the end, both Finrod Felagund and Sauron wanted what they thought best for the World. While FF believe firmly in the righteousness of the Valar, Sauron belived after the downfall of Morgoth that he could do things best that anyone else.
From Morgoth’s Ring: Myths Transformed
Quote:
and though the only real good in, or rational motive for, all this ordering and planning and organization was the good of all inhabitants of Arda (even admitting Sauron's right to be their supreme lord)
In the end, Sauron slayed Finrod Felagund in a battle of songs of power but what a way to loose his hröar than to someone who resembled him in a relatively equal way.
In their slayings in Middle-earth, FF returned to Valinórë to be with Amarië and Sauron went to the void to be reunited with his mentor.
The principal difference that I see is that Sauron never repented for his sins, while Finrod I would assume that he repented for following Fëanor into ME.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.”
As an adjective American is:
1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
As a noun American is:
A native or inhabitant of America.
A citizen of the United States.

Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again:
1. The United States.
2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America.

Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?”
The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.”
The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.
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Old 03-23-2003, 09:05 PM   #64
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Re: Sauron comparison with Finrod Felagund
Quote:
Originally posted by Maedhros
First, lets see a little background on Sauron:
Sauron was one of the Ainur, and was noble and good at the beginning. Of course Sauron was a former maiar of Aulë and had plenty of skill as a craftsmen, unlike FF.
Finrod did have skill as a craftsman. Why do you think he was called Felagund. Tolkien does say that he was more interested in matters of thought than with skill of hand though.


Quote:
He like Finrod Felagund, followed other beings. Sauron followed Morgoth, and Finrod followed Fëanor to Middle-earth.
Finrod did not follow Feanor, he followed Fingolfin and his sons who followed Feanor.
Quote:
Both Morgoth and Fëanor were mightier beings than Sauron and Finrod.
How could Feanor be mightier than a Maia?

Quote:
Finrod was of the house of Finarfin, and had golden hair, yet Sauron as en ëalar, could take any form he wished to appear, so he could look fairer than Finrod Felagund.
Why is this significant? Sauron was a Maia and had the ability then to assume any fair form he wished, but in the end, Meadhros, who was the fairest?


Quote:
In the end, Sauron slayed Finrod Felagund in a battle of songs of power but what a way to loose his hröar than to someone who resembled him in a relatively equal way.
Sauron did not slay him in a song of power. Finrod was slain by a wolf in the dungeons of Tol-in-Gaurhoth. Sauron did not resemble Finrod in any way.

Quote:
The principal difference that I see is that Sauron never repented for his sins, while Finrod I would assume that he repented for following Fëanor into ME.
Finrod was like all the Noldor that went into exile, under the curse of Mandos, and I believe that he may have only repented for defying the Valar and going into exile, not for following Feanor. Finrod was rleased from Mandos quickly.
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"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 03-24-2003, 07:44 AM   #65
Inderjit Sanghera
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Quote:
Finrod did not follow Feanor he followed Fingolfin and his sons
But he like all the Noldor was still swayed by his words.

Quote:
How could Feanor be mightier then a Maia?
I think he meant it in the context that Morgoth was more powerful then Sauron and Feanor mightier then Finrod , though both Sauron and Finrod were wiser then Feanor and Morgoth respectively.
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Old 03-24-2003, 08:59 AM   #66
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Quote:
But he like all the Noldor was still swayed by his words.
Perhaps, but Finrod joined the revolt reluctantly. The Sil says that he stood by Turgon his friend.
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"Whither go you?" she said.

"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 03-24-2003, 09:50 AM   #67
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Quote:
I think he meant it in the context that Morgoth was more powerful then Sauron and Feanor mightier then Finrod , though both Sauron and Finrod were wiser then Feanor and Morgoth respectively.
Yep.
Quote:
Perhaps, but Finrod joined the revolt reluctantly. The Sil says that he stood by Turgon his friend.
Yet, he still followed the revolt, he could have done like his father and remain, but he followed it.
Quote:
Finrod did have skill as a craftsman. Why do you think he was called Felagund.
He may have been a good craftsmen, but his skills are not compared to that of Fëanor nor Celebrimbor.
Quote:
Sauron did not slay him in a song of power. Finrod was slain by a wolf in the dungeons of Tol-in-Gaurhoth. Sauron did not resemble Finrod in any way.
He was defeated by Sauron. Finrod had skills but not nearly enough to beat Sauron.
Quote:
Finrod was like all the Noldor that went into exile, under the curse of Mandos, and I believe that he may have only repented for defying the Valar and going into exile, not for following Feanor.
Defying the Valar is the same as following Fëanor.
From The Peoples of Middle-earth: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Quote:
Then Nerdanel was angry and she answered: 'You will not keep all of them. One at least will never set foot on Middle-earth.' 'Take your evil omens to the Valar who will delight in them,' said Fëanor. 'I defy them'. So they parted.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.”
As an adjective American is:
1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
As a noun American is:
A native or inhabitant of America.
A citizen of the United States.

Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again:
1. The United States.
2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America.

Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?”
The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.”
The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.
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Old 03-24-2003, 10:07 AM   #68
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"Whither go you?" she said.

"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 03-26-2003, 01:24 AM   #69
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Oh my... How the two Elf lords in question would laugh at this thread. It's utterly ridiculous to try and argue that one is better than the other. They are both wonderful characters because of the different personalities and virtues that Tolkien gave them, not because of the way they compared to one another. I fail to see how you can feasibly compare them in a a negative manner. They were both loyal to their friends, though each showed that loyalty in different ways. They both fought valiently against those who followed Morgoth and both ruled their people wisely in the ways that they believed were wise, which, when you think about it, is the best a ruler can do. Personally I like Finrod's character more, but that is largely because I know more about him, and because what I know of his personality appeals to me. He is someone who values peace and thought but is no coward and has skill in other things as well. If there were as many detailed stories including Fingon as there are including Finrod then perhaps I know more of him and my opinion would change, but as it is, that is not the case.
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Old 03-26-2003, 09:33 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
You see what I'm saying SGH? This is why we should let sleeping pups lie. I can't even respond I'm so disgusted . He makes false statements in disrespect of the greatest Elf that was ever created in JRRT's worlds and has no facts to back it up with.

*draws sword, contemplates a second Kinslaying for Maedhros, then sighs and gives up* after all, you'd just be reborn again, what's the point. *throws hands up in the air*
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Old 03-27-2003, 05:41 AM   #71
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Maedhros resisted the urge to Slay Elves for the Jewels for quite a time and held back the urge of his brothers as well. Obviously, he had to eventually succumb to fate...
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Old 03-27-2003, 10:00 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
Maedhros resisted the urge to Slay Elves for the Jewels for quite a time and held back the urge of his brothers as well. Obviously, he had to eventually succumb to fate...
You misunderstand... I ... want ... to ... slay... Maedhros. THAT is the said "second Kinslaying".... me, Ruinel (Elf), slaying Maedhros (also Elf, but the one who posts, not the character in The Sil). Got it?
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Old 03-28-2003, 04:18 AM   #73
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Maedhros, I don't think you managed to convince them But I enjoyed the trial. Better luck next time.
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Old 03-28-2003, 09:59 PM   #74
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If I could have convinced them, they wouldn't been FF fans.

Quote:
You misunderstand... I ... want ... to ... slay... Maedhros. THAT is the said "second Kinslaying".... me, Ruinel (Elf), slaying Maedhros (also Elf, but the one who posts, not the character in The Sil). Got it?
Where is SGH when you need her?
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.”
As an adjective American is:
1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
As a noun American is:
A native or inhabitant of America.
A citizen of the United States.

Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again:
1. The United States.
2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America.

Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?”
The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.”
The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.
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Old 03-29-2003, 12:50 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maedhros
If I could have convinced them, they wouldn't been FF fans.


Where is SGH when you need her?
Don't hide behind her skirts, little pup.
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Old 03-29-2003, 01:16 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ruinel
Don't hide behind her skirts, little pup.
Meadhros, you are talking about my hero, but I will defend you. That is my job as administrator. Ruinel, it is agianst posting policies to threaten to murder another member. I am a senior member, an admin, and I have loved FF probably longer than you have been alive. Only I may make that threat. And if I do that, he will be tortured by a deadly pillow fight, and then be made to face a wolf called Buttercup.
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"Whither go you?" she said.

"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 03-29-2003, 01:44 AM   #77
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O, the horror!
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Old 03-29-2003, 01:49 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem


O, the horror!
Pretty scary huh? I thought so.
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"Whither go you?" she said.

"North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes."

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Old 03-29-2003, 01:53 AM   #79
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Yesyesyes, of course ogreatadmin!


EDIT: A most fitting punishment for one who would defile the honour of Finrod the Valiant.
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Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens.

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Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 03-29-2003 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 03-29-2003, 09:13 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maedhros
If I could have convinced them, they wouldn't been FF fans.
Very true
Quote:
Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Only I may make that threat.
I love that. The absolute power of an admin.
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