I'm disgusted

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by azalea
Millane, Haldir wasn't thinking "get away you filthy mortal," PJ had established the way elves give each other a warm greeting -- they do not hug, but extend the right arm and grasp the shoulder of the other elf, which Aragorn knew and had done w/ Legolas earlier after the fake death thing. But Aragorn was so moved by their coming that he gave the "warm man greeting" too. Haldir didn't know about this, so he just reacts thinking "what is he doing" but then seems to understand and hug him back a little. I don't remember if elves hug in the books, but this is how PJ has done it, so that's why Haldir seems that way when Aragorn hugs him.

very well put! I agree completly! I still didn't like it when the elves show up at Helm's Deep!

[eowyngirl14]

Originally posted by Millane
i cannot understand this at all how could you cry for an elf that was in it for that short a time and had no big role to play and in all the scenes you saw him he was being a wanker when you first see him he insults a dwarf already with hostile feelings towards elves with a few axes ready to kill in an instant, well he must have missed the elves intelligence aswell as there looks, next scene Aragorn has to beg him to be allowed through Lothlorien, at Helms deep when he turns up aragorn hugs him and he stands there with his get-away-from-me-filthy-mortal look on... honestly i think an arrow or 2 would have been fitting..

Maybe you can't understand it because you are not a teenage girl... or are you?? Pardon my ignorance, but what does 'wanker' mean?

[azalea]

Originally posted by eowyngirl14
... what does 'wanker' mean?

Don't ask.

[Elfhelm]

Gondoran men kiss each other. So do Hobbits. PJ only has one kiss, after Boromir is dead, and none by Hobbits. I don't see any elf hugging or kissing in any of the books. So I guess Aragorn's hug was an all-too-human thing for our "Vulcanized" elves. I think in most people's AD&D world, elves are more affectionate than humans, but not in Tolkien's weird rendition of elves.

[Huan]

Elfhelm wrote:
I think in most people's AD&D world, elves are more affectionate than humans, but not in Tolkien's weird rendition of elves.

The AD&D elves are actually based on Tolkien's "weird rendition." How are his elves any weirder than Shakespeare's, with his "damned cobwebs," in Tolkien's words, or the ones who make toys for Santa Claus? Anyway, it's actually never occured to me to roleplay my D&D elves as more affectionate than humans. Well, I do have one NPC who was obsessed with women, but other than him. Gosh, how off-topic am I?

[Arcala]

I agree with you! That wasn't the best thing to change.

[Evenstar1400]

Bout the elves at helms deep:

it was a little messed up, but PJ sorta made it symbolize that theres still hope as long as the peoples of middle earth remain as one.

Bout Haldir's death:

i think he shoulda just been injured by a sword or something, and then got up and kept fighting and was okay. it kinda was almost saying elves are weak. i mean......... the thing with all the dead elves lying under the uruk hai? come on! it was almost like legolas was the only surviving elf in the battle of helms deep (which isnt entirely a bad thing cause if legolas died in battle in the books or the movies i wouldnt be able to stop sobbing and im getting off topic.....) PJ should have at the least have a few more elves seen riding out to meet the uruk hai as the last chance for survival. but thats just my opinion.

[eowyngirl14]

HHHhhhmmmmm... interesting opinion... in my opinion!

[Nurvingiel]

About Haldir's death, I just didn't think it was well done. The second time I saw TTT, I tried to completely seperate it from the book. Unfortunately, this is impossible, but PJ should have known that the book already set a huge precedent. In making a movie from arguably one of the greatest books ever written, PJ owed it to the readers to stay as true as possible.

Haldir's death scene was clearly added in. It didn't sit well, or feel right. PJ isn't an author, he just has some writer's who can't compare to Tolkien's mastery. Some of the 'extra' scenes are fine, because they're not too important.

However, take something meaningful like the death of an Elf, and a cool one at that, and the pointlessness of the scene is glaringly obvious.

[eowyngirl14]

I don't think it was pointless, as someone else said, not on this thread I think though. It would be a little too lucky for all of the main charecters to survive! While they were talking about how many people/ elves (in the movie) died! It would be unrealistic. Haldir was the least important-important charecter that they could kill off, and still not totally kill the plot!

[Nurvingiel]

When I say Haldir's death is pointless, I mean that the elves at Helm's Deep were inserted into the plot without any explanation or history. Then, Haldir was killed because PJ wanted to kill off someone we cared about, but not someone who was intergral to the rest of the plot.

Haldir's death had a point only in the sense that it existed for poetic purposes. It did not have a point with respect to plot or character development.

[LuthienTinuviel]

i have always thought of elves being affectionate, just with each other, not the filthy mortals
besides, through lord of the rings we can niether confirm nor deny the prescense of elven loving emotion (haha im practicing to be a politician for a school project)
hahah

but no, really, all we know for sure is that they had kids, everyone knows how to make kids, right? (if you don't, go ask your parents, and you didn't hear it from me )

but how do we know what happened in Lothlorien, in the second age???

but anyways, i liked the way they did the death scene, even though i think it shouldn't have been there.

[entss89]

i am so with you! its like a nightmera!

[Millane]

Maybe you can't understand it because you are not a teenage girl... or are you?? Pardon my ignorance, but what does 'wanker' mean?

nah im not a teenage girl and dont worry about the wanker thing... i just cant see how anyone could get so attatched to Haldir, i mean Boromir was so much more likeable haldir died because he wasnt a good enough fighter he shouldnt have let aragorn distract him...
ohhh and i loved the elves at helms deep and i love elves but not the haldir variety of course

[Nurvingiel]

I cried when Boromir died, it was so sad. But it was okay because that's what Tolkien wrote. I don't like any huge deviation from the book, and it's even worse when a character is killed off for entertainment purposes.

[eowyngirl14]

I agree that the elves should not have been in Helm's Deep! I too cried buckets when Boromir died!! It was soooo sad! but it was done beautifully despite the mix up in arrows... (he is shot with an arrow in the same spot twice...)

[Nurvingiel]

Through my tears, I never noticed the arrow mix up. I don't tend to notice Easter eggs or mistakes in movies.

[eowyngirl14]

I didn't notice the arrows untill one of my friends told me, and then I saw it on the DVD. What is an easter egg?

[Nurvingiel]

Easter eggs are things that people doing the grunt work on movies - usually animators - plant on-purpose to be funny. I don't think the arrows would be an Easter egg.

[eowyngirl14]

Can you give me an example? I am rather slow... wouldn't PJ make them take it out if he noticed?


an example of an easter egg I mean!