Would tolkien agree??? - Page 4

BeardofPants · 09-12-2002, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aeryn
For the simple fact of it is sort of a movie master piece, alot of digital effects, beautiful sets, and one hot Legolas

Except for the fact that he was deeply distrustful of the movie medium.

And I really do doubt that when he was writing it, he was thinking of leggie as "one hot" elf.

Aeryn · 09-12-2002, 07:26 PM

he may have been distrustful but... I have no come back to that

any way thanks for replying.!

BeardofPants · 09-12-2002, 07:28 PM

I'm sure you'll come up with one.

Welcome to the moot!

I'm the sourpuss who doesn't like the movie.

Aeryn · 09-12-2002, 07:30 PM

thanks for the welcome!
Well you have the choice of being the sourpuss, just like I can be jolly and fun and .......STUFF!

jerseydevil · 09-12-2002, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
I'm sure you'll come up with one.

Welcome to the moot!

I'm the sourpuss who doesn't like the movie.

And I'm the other one that doesn't really like the movie.

and welcome.

Aeryn · 09-12-2002, 08:34 PM

Nice to meet another sourpuss, thanks for the welcome. Cute Avatar. I'm obsessed with avatars right now, because i can't get any

Oh well!

Entlover · 09-13-2002, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aeryn
it is sort of a movie master piece,

I hereby award you First Place in Understatements for 2002.
____________________

But seriously, Tolkien was a serious dude. He had a lot of troubles, financial, etc, and his life was not easy. He probably seemed humorless to the pupils into whose heads he was trying to cram a little education . . . but he couldn't have written Pippin, Merry, and all the rest without a sense of humor.

My favorite line: "What do they eat when they can't get hobbit?"

You're telling me that man has no sense of humor?

Aeryn · 09-15-2002, 08:28 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Entlover
[B]I hereby award you First Place in Understatements for 2002.
____________________

THANKS! YOU LOVE ME YOU REALLY LOVE MEEEEEEE!!!

Linarryl · 10-21-2002, 03:35 PM

He probably would, but he'd make some changes to it.

Gerbil · 10-21-2002, 06:02 PM

I whole-heartedly believe Tolkien would have hated it as an adaptation of his work.

If he were able to ignore the last 50 years of his life spent working on LotR etc. then I am sure he'd have enjoyed the film.

If anyone doubts he would have detested it, read through Tolkien's Letters book, and see his comments on various other adaptations of his work.

He may have sold the rights, but that does not mean he would have accepted whatever version was produced. At the time he sold his rights he was getting on in years and had a relatively modest income. The money he made from the sale of the rights was extremely valuable to him.

One can hardly blame him for gaining some fiscal reward for his life's work, but I don't think he would have sold the rights unless he felt he had too (and indeed what with his wife's illness and his own troubles, along with limited financial resources, I believe he 'had' to sell the rights).

He was too much of a perfectionist to ever be able to be anything other than insulted and confused by PJ's adaptation. More to the point, he created his works as a 'slice of history'. Not as a film.
This is why I get annoyed at people like PJ saying Tolkien's world and story is very difficult to realise on film. Well of course it is - it was never meant to be that way. 'History' (and real-life) usually translate REALLY badly to film, because films only ever show a cut-down / changed / edited version of what happened.

BTW, to Aeryn - admit it, I have the cutest Avatar

Cirdan · 10-21-2002, 06:55 PM

An old resucitated thread, how charming... I hadn't read this one until now and I just have to thank playgirl for the hilarious mental picture of JRRT playing with his LotR action figures. rotflmao

From what I have seen and read the world of Hollywood and film making was far more foreign to JRRT than Middle Earth, maybe even Mars. I don't think he would have giving the film much more than a passing thought. If someone would have disturbed his peace just for input on a movie they probably would have gotten more than they asked for.

bropous · 10-21-2002, 09:14 PM

Tolkien would have simply despised this film. I sincerely doubt he would have sat through the whole thing.

From what I get from "Letters", he would have had Black Breathalizer eating his words before they were even typed.

For those who seem to think Tolkien would have liked, or even loved, the film, I think you need to find out more about old Ronald the man.

Cirdan · 10-21-2002, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bropous
Tolkien would have simply despised this film. I sincerely doubt he would have sat through the whole thing.

From what I get from "Letters", he would have had Black Breathalizer eating his words before they were even typed.

For those who seem to think Tolkien would have liked, or even loved, the film, I think you need to find out more about old Ronald the man.

Oh dear god please don't give that #$%& BB a reason to poison this thread. I've been trying to keep him amused in the wallow of his own creation.

I totally agree about JRRT. "What do you mean I can't smoke my pipe in here? Bah, I going home to do some gardening."

Arcala · 01-15-2003, 10:08 PM

I think that Tolkien would not have liked the movie at all because it messes up his book and he probably wouldn't understand why PJ cut out certain parts. But then, that's already been said a million times, hasn't it? I'm just giving my opinion.

squinteyedsoutherner · 01-15-2003, 10:52 PM

The Ballantine cover (BoP was refering to earlier) that sent Tolkien over the moon:

"it showed a hill, two emus and a curious tree bearing bulbous fruit. Tolkien exploded; Why emus? where is this place? And what is that thing in the foreground with pink bulbs? When the reply came that the artist hadn't had time to read the book, and that the object with the pink bulbs was a Christmas tree, Tolkien could only answer "I feel that I am shut up in a madhouse"

From Humphrey Carpenter's Tolkien Biography.

Letter #210 clearly shows what Tolkien would have thought of some of the specific changes made in Jackson's movie, as he is responding to some of the very same changes in that letter. I think it is really beyond debate that Tolkien would not have liked these films, and it is probably safe to say, with a reasonable amount of certainty, that Tolkien would have been less than pleased with anything that would have been financially viable.

Elfhelm · 01-16-2003, 02:31 PM

As mentioned again and again, novelists don't necessarily know doodly about drama. In fact, Tolkien did not think drama a proper medium for fairy tales. Shakespeare, however, did. And Shakespeare had no problems altering the factual history of Julius Caesar's life in order to fit it on a stage. Tolkien would probably have had issues with Shakespeare, too. Apples and oranges. Novelists are not dramatists. Their opinions are worth reading, but in the end if they were so good at it they would have written it. I'm sure I can find some Shaw to back me up, too, if anyone even cared for reality on this subject.

Elf.Freak · 01-16-2003, 02:48 PM

his family and friends said that he would HATE the movie! i can't find the URL for the website i heard this on, but apparently he hates Celtic style music (ie. Hobbiton theme).
i don't think Tolkien would like the idea of Ancarnar (a movie based on Middle Earth), a thread about this is HERE (the website is down, but the thread may discribe what's on the site).

Elfhelm · 01-16-2003, 07:31 PM

Oh gosh, if Tolkien hated Celtic style music then I guess I have to learn to play different stuff. After all, Tolkien is always right. Funny, he had no qualms about stealing the Celtic sidhe for his British pseudo-mythology. I guess some people are allowed to change things (him, the god of all writers) and others are not (like stupid Shakespeare). At least that's what I infer from the sycophancy around here.

Oh by the way ... from Monty Python:

The sycophants are one of the largest of marine carnivores. Their soft, furry underbellies made them a favourite target for hunters. Now, on this island, the sycophants come to breed every summer, protected by law.

Gwaimir Windgem · 01-16-2003, 11:46 PM

I highly doubt that Tolkien would have approved of PJ's movies as adaptations, though he might have liked them as movies. From what I have heard from people/what little I have read (so far) of the Letters, I would not think he would like it at all as LotR.

09-12-2002, 07:26 PM	#62
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	beardofpants he may have been distrustful but... I have no come back to that any way thanks for replying.! __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

09-12-2002, 07:28 PM	#63
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	I'm sure you'll come up with one. Welcome to the moot! I'm the sourpuss who doesn't like the movie. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

09-12-2002, 07:30 PM	#64
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	beard thanks for the welcome! Well you have the choice of being the sourpuss, just like I can be jolly and fun and .......STUFF! __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

09-12-2002, 08:34 PM	#66
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	jersey Nice to meet another sourpuss, thanks for the welcome. Cute Avatar. I'm obsessed with avatars right now, because i can't get any Oh well! __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

09-15-2002, 08:28 PM	#68
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	Re: Re: an opinion [QUOTE]Originally posted by Entlover [B]I hereby award you First Place in Understatements for 2002. ____________________ THANKS! YOU LOVE ME YOU REALLY LOVE MEEEEEEE!!! __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

10-21-2002, 03:35 PM	#69
Linarryl Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 160	He probably would, but he'd make some changes to it.

10-21-2002, 06:02 PM	#70
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	I whole-heartedly believe Tolkien would have hated it as an adaptation of his work. If he were able to ignore the last 50 years of his life spent working on LotR etc. then I am sure he'd have enjoyed the film. If anyone doubts he would have detested it, read through Tolkien's Letters book, and see his comments on various other adaptations of his work. He may have sold the rights, but that does not mean he would have accepted whatever version was produced. At the time he sold his rights he was getting on in years and had a relatively modest income. The money he made from the sale of the rights was extremely valuable to him. One can hardly blame him for gaining some fiscal reward for his life's work, but I don't think he would have sold the rights unless he felt he had too (and indeed what with his wife's illness and his own troubles, along with limited financial resources, I believe he 'had' to sell the rights). He was too much of a perfectionist to ever be able to be anything other than insulted and confused by PJ's adaptation. More to the point, he created his works as a 'slice of history'. Not as a film. This is why I get annoyed at people like PJ saying Tolkien's world and story is very difficult to realise on film. Well of course it is - it was never meant to be that way. 'History' (and real-life) usually translate REALLY badly to film, because films only ever show a cut-down / changed / edited version of what happened. BTW, to Aeryn - admit it, I have the cutest Avatar __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk Last edited by Gerbil : 10-21-2002 at 06:05 PM.

10-21-2002, 06:55 PM	#71
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	An old resucitated thread, how charming... I hadn't read this one until now and I just have to thank playgirl for the hilarious mental picture of JRRT playing with his LotR action figures. rotflmao From what I have seen and read the world of Hollywood and film making was far more foreign to JRRT than Middle Earth, maybe even Mars. I don't think he would have giving the film much more than a passing thought. If someone would have disturbed his peace just for input on a movie they probably would have gotten more than they asked for. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

10-21-2002, 09:14 PM	#72
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Tolkien would have simply despised this film. I sincerely doubt he would have sat through the whole thing. From what I get from "Letters", he would have had Black Breathalizer eating his words before they were even typed. For those who seem to think Tolkien would have liked, or even loved, the film, I think you need to find out more about old Ronald the man. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. Last edited by bropous : 10-21-2002 at 09:17 PM.

01-15-2003, 10:08 PM	#74
Arcala Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Eating WAY too much peanut butter... Posts: 274	I think that Tolkien would not have liked the movie at all because it messes up his book and he probably wouldn't understand why PJ cut out certain parts. But then, that's already been said a million times, hasn't it? I'm just giving my opinion.

01-15-2003, 10:52 PM	#75
squinteyedsoutherner Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 198	The Ballantine cover (BoP was refering to earlier) that sent Tolkien over the moon: "it showed a hill, two emus and a curious tree bearing bulbous fruit. Tolkien exploded; Why emus? where is this place? And what is that thing in the foreground with pink bulbs? When the reply came that the artist hadn't had time to read the book, and that the object with the pink bulbs was a Christmas tree, Tolkien could only answer "I feel that I am shut up in a madhouse" From Humphrey Carpenter's Tolkien Biography. Letter #210 clearly shows what Tolkien would have thought of some of the specific changes made in Jackson's movie, as he is responding to some of the very same changes in that letter. I think it is really beyond debate that Tolkien would not have liked these films, and it is probably safe to say, with a reasonable amount of certainty, that Tolkien would have been less than pleased with anything that would have been financially viable. Last edited by squinteyedsoutherner : 01-15-2003 at 11:56 PM.

01-16-2003, 02:31 PM	#76
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	As mentioned again and again, novelists don't necessarily know doodly about drama. In fact, Tolkien did not think drama a proper medium for fairy tales. Shakespeare, however, did. And Shakespeare had no problems altering the factual history of Julius Caesar's life in order to fit it on a stage. Tolkien would probably have had issues with Shakespeare, too. Apples and oranges. Novelists are not dramatists. Their opinions are worth reading, but in the end if they were so good at it they would have written it. I'm sure I can find some Shaw to back me up, too, if anyone even cared for reality on this subject. __________________ cya

01-16-2003, 02:48 PM	#77
Elf.Freak Orli's lil fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sugar World/Orlando Bloom Cloud Posts: 464	his family and friends said that he would HATE the movie! i can't find the URL for the website i heard this on, but apparently he hates Celtic style music (ie. Hobbiton theme). i don't think Tolkien would like the idea of Ancarnar (a movie based on Middle Earth), a thread about this is HERE (the website is down, but the thread may discribe what's on the site). __________________ >>--elven arrow--> ~ Give a man a fish and he'll feed for a day, give me a fish and you'll only get it back! ~ I've gotta new avatar! looks kinda like me...anime style! ~ LOST: Orlando Bloom. If found, please send him straight to Elf.Freak

01-16-2003, 07:31 PM	#78
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Oh gosh, if Tolkien hated Celtic style music then I guess I have to learn to play different stuff. After all, Tolkien is always right. Funny, he had no qualms about stealing the Celtic sidhe for his British pseudo-mythology. I guess some people are allowed to change things (him, the god of all writers) and others are not (like stupid Shakespeare). At least that's what I infer from the sycophancy around here. Oh by the way ... from Monty Python: The sycophants are one of the largest of marine carnivores. Their soft, furry underbellies made them a favourite target for hunters. Now, on this island, the sycophants come to breed every summer, protected by law. __________________ cya Last edited by Elfhelm : 01-16-2003 at 07:35 PM.

01-16-2003, 11:46 PM	#79
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I highly doubt that Tolkien would have approved of PJ's movies as adaptations, though he might have liked them as movies. From what I have heard from people/what little I have read (so far) of the Letters, I would not think he would like it at all as LotR. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

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