Could ANYONE have willingly destroyed the Ring? - Page 4

Comic Book Guy · 08-06-2002, 08:15 PM

Quote:

...is stated that Sauron was the greatest of the Maiar.

Where in Tolkien canon does it state that Sauron was the greatest of all the maiar?

samwiselvr2008 · 08-06-2002, 09:53 PM

maybe, it seemed to have little efect on him

Archbob the Elder · 08-07-2002, 11:46 PM

I'm not sure, I read some reference before that Sauron was the greatest of the Maiar.

Fools, I could have willingly destroyed the ring.

Christiana · 08-08-2002, 11:05 AM

me too.

Sween · 08-08-2002, 12:02 PM

I think uve been looking on the enclopedia of arda.

Dolenloteiel · 08-08-2002, 05:40 PM

I doubt that anyone can willingly destroy the ring. Frodo himself found it difficult to do so. If Gollum hadn't seized the Ring and fell into the inferno, I believe the Ring never would have been destroyed.

bropous · 08-08-2002, 06:49 PM

CBG, at risk of posting a Silmarillion response on a LotR subject, I was going to say that Sauron is indicated as the greatest of the Maiar on page 26. However, in re-reading the passage, Gorthaur the Cruel is only indicated as the greatest of Morgoth's servants. He was a Maiar in service of Aule originally, and deemed "mighty in the lore of that people." But no greatest Maiar.

One could certainly make the case that he achieved the greatest power of any of the Maiar, however. Even Olorin dared not face him openly until the Battle of the Morannon. Had Olorin and Gorthaur squared off, I doubt that Gorthaur would have been vanquished. Sauron/Gorthaur was a coward at times, but his might and strength never significantly paled.

bropous · 08-08-2002, 06:54 PM

As for me personally, whether I would have been able to destroy the ring if so tasked:

Honestly, I probably would have succumbed to temptation and attempted to use the Ring to do good works, and all my actions would have worked against my will to serve Sauron. I probably would have stood on the slopes of Orodruin and called out to Sauron in direct challenge. And I would have been quickly, and soundly defeated, Sauron would have regained the ring and Middle-Earth would fall under his sway.

Frodo is a fascinating character.

Sween · 08-09-2002, 05:48 AM

Sauron was a very powerfull mair but when he came to combat he was allways defeated. But he did achive a lot. I dont know if Ganalf could of defeated him in one on one combat gandalf the white maybe could of done. when the white council explued him from Dol guldor were both gandalf and saurman present? the two of them could of taken him down probably. But this is illreveent the isati were not allowed to take the fight directally they could only direct.

Archbob the Elder · 08-09-2002, 05:04 PM

But remember that much of Sauron's power passed into the one ring, I doubt if Sauron had gotten the ring, Gandlaf the white couldn't have beaten him in one-on-one combat.

Radagast The Brown · 08-10-2002, 02:37 PM

Sauron is one of the strongest maiar, but not the strongest. Gandalf was the smartest maia, but not the most powerful. Saruman and Gandalf together against Sauron? I think Sauron would win.

Sicirus · 08-11-2002, 12:13 AM

Sauron was ofcourse Merkors greatest servants. He must have been pretty strong. Since the ring had his power though, what was he left with while he was waitting for it back?
I mean was he weak without the orcs to fight for him.

Radagast The Brown · 08-11-2002, 02:35 PM

I think that Sauron didn't put all his power in the ring, just most of it.

Sicirus · 08-12-2002, 12:15 PM

What happend to him after the war?
Tolkien diden't say what happend to him after the war.
Or is it when the ring was destroyed he was destroyed?

Radagast The Brown · 08-12-2002, 03:33 PM

I guess his body disapiered when he lost his ring, and most of his power gone... as i said, not all of his power was in the ring. that's why he could've come back to Mordor.

cassiopeia · 08-12-2002, 09:59 PM

I think Sauron lost his body, but his spririt still wanders.

BeardofPants · 08-18-2002, 08:02 PM

Tolkien states in one of his letters, that Gollum probably would have eventually destroyed the ring, (if Frodo and Sam had been killed) IF he had the time to come to the right decision. However, with the nazgul wheeling towards orodruin, it is doubtful that he would have had time to make the decision. But Tolkien felt that he could have done it... eventually.

BTW: I don't think Aragorn could have done it either.

entss89 · 08-22-2002, 04:07 PM

sam could have!

Sicirus · 08-22-2002, 07:24 PM

Maybe
But i doubt it.

markedel · 08-22-2002, 08:17 PM

In the disaster of the Gladden Fields in Unfinished Tales, Isildur "renounces" the ring near the end or at least repents in that he took it. That is probably why the ring slipped off his finger, it could sense impending doom.

08-06-2002, 09:53 PM	#62
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	maybe, it seemed to have little efect on him __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES!

08-07-2002, 11:46 PM	#63
Archbob the Elder Enting Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 77	I'm not sure, I read some reference before that Sauron was the greatest of the Maiar. Fools, I could have willingly destroyed the ring. __________________ Get Free Stuff

08-08-2002, 11:05 AM	#64
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	me too. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

08-08-2002, 12:02 PM	#65
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	I think uve been looking on the enclopedia of arda. __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

08-08-2002, 05:40 PM	#66
Dolenloteiel I elenfea Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Somewhere in the chaos between the first and second ages! (Actually, CO) Posts: 556	Doubts I doubt that anyone can willingly destroy the ring. Frodo himself found it difficult to do so. If Gollum hadn't seized the Ring and fell into the inferno, I believe the Ring never would have been destroyed. __________________ "Middle Earth is a real place. And it is New Zealand." Sir Ian McKellan **************************** QUESTION AUTHORITY Ask me anything ************************** "I have not failed, I've only found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison ************************** Visit Tolkien RP Site! Need members, RP all three Ages! (UNDER CONSTRUCTION) http://elvellon.suddenlaunch2.com **************************** "Yay, I can hear the voices in my head again!

08-08-2002, 06:49 PM	#67
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	CBG, at risk of posting a Silmarillion response on a LotR subject, I was going to say that Sauron is indicated as the greatest of the Maiar on page 26. However, in re-reading the passage, Gorthaur the Cruel is only indicated as the greatest of Morgoth's servants. He was a Maiar in service of Aule originally, and deemed "mighty in the lore of that people." But no greatest Maiar. One could certainly make the case that he achieved the greatest power of any of the Maiar, however. Even Olorin dared not face him openly until the Battle of the Morannon. Had Olorin and Gorthaur squared off, I doubt that Gorthaur would have been vanquished. Sauron/Gorthaur was a coward at times, but his might and strength never significantly paled. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. Last edited by bropous : 08-08-2002 at 06:50 PM.

08-08-2002, 06:54 PM	#68
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	As for me personally, whether I would have been able to destroy the ring if so tasked: Honestly, I probably would have succumbed to temptation and attempted to use the Ring to do good works, and all my actions would have worked against my will to serve Sauron. I probably would have stood on the slopes of Orodruin and called out to Sauron in direct challenge. And I would have been quickly, and soundly defeated, Sauron would have regained the ring and Middle-Earth would fall under his sway. Frodo is a fascinating character. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

08-09-2002, 05:48 AM	#69
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	Sauron was a very powerfull mair but when he came to combat he was allways defeated. But he did achive a lot. I dont know if Ganalf could of defeated him in one on one combat gandalf the white maybe could of done. when the white council explued him from Dol guldor were both gandalf and saurman present? the two of them could of taken him down probably. But this is illreveent the isati were not allowed to take the fight directally they could only direct. __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

08-09-2002, 05:04 PM	#70
Archbob the Elder Enting Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 77	But remember that much of Sauron's power passed into the one ring, I doubt if Sauron had gotten the ring, Gandlaf the white couldn't have beaten him in one-on-one combat. __________________ Get Free Stuff

08-10-2002, 02:37 PM	#71
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	Sauron is one of the strongest maiar, but not the strongest. Gandalf was the smartest maia, but not the most powerful. Saruman and Gandalf together against Sauron? I think Sauron would win. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-11-2002, 12:13 AM	#72
Sicirus Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Down the road on your left...No your other left. Posts: 1,825	Sauron was ofcourse Merkors greatest servants. He must have been pretty strong. Since the ring had his power though, what was he left with while he was waitting for it back? I mean was he weak without the orcs to fight for him. __________________ "I know less then half of you half as well as I should like. And I like less then half of you half as well as you deserve." Bilbo Baggins

08-11-2002, 02:35 PM	#73
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I think that Sauron didn't put all his power in the ring, just most of it. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-12-2002, 12:15 PM	#74
Sicirus Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Down the road on your left...No your other left. Posts: 1,825	What happend to him after the war? Tolkien diden't say what happend to him after the war. Or is it when the ring was destroyed he was destroyed? __________________ "I know less then half of you half as well as I should like. And I like less then half of you half as well as you deserve." Bilbo Baggins

08-12-2002, 03:33 PM	#75
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I guess his body disapiered when he lost his ring, and most of his power gone... as i said, not all of his power was in the ring. that's why he could've come back to Mordor. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-12-2002, 09:59 PM	#76
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	I think Sauron lost his body, but his spririt still wanders. __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. Last edited by cassiopeia : 05-08-2003 at 04:48 AM.

08-18-2002, 08:02 PM	#77
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Tolkien states in one of his letters, that Gollum probably would have eventually destroyed the ring, (if Frodo and Sam had been killed) IF he had the time to come to the right decision. However, with the nazgul wheeling towards orodruin, it is doubtful that he would have had time to make the decision. But Tolkien felt that he could have done it... eventually. BTW: I don't think Aragorn could have done it either. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

08-22-2002, 04:07 PM	#78
entss89 lord of the ents Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nc Posts: 539	hi sam could have!

08-22-2002, 07:24 PM	#79
Sicirus Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Down the road on your left...No your other left. Posts: 1,825	Maybe But i doubt it. __________________ "I know less then half of you half as well as I should like. And I like less then half of you half as well as you deserve." Bilbo Baggins

08-22-2002, 08:17 PM	#80
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	In the disaster of the Gladden Fields in Unfinished Tales, Isildur "renounces" the ring near the end or at least repents in that he took it. That is probably why the ring slipped off his finger, it could sense impending doom. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

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