The Eye of Sauron

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Gordis

They found Elendil's Elendilmir (E-I) later, in Saruman's hoard: it had been drowned with Isildur. But the Elves made a new one (E-II) for Valandil, and forty Arnor Kings and Chieftains had worn it before it came to Aragorn.

I remember Aragorn saying that he would use the one they found (E-I) only on special occasions - he would continue to use E-II normally, because it was still a noble ornament, having been worn throughout so many generations.

[Noble Elf Lord]

Originally Posted by Gordis

The "Wheel of Fire" was the Ring itself, not the Eye.

That is how it looked in the Spirit World, I guess.

OK, thanks for sorting that out for me. Then again, stubborn as I am, remember that the Ring was Sauron in a way...

[kerbouchard]

I agree with Eärendiel, this is an interesting thread because I never imagined a one-eyed Sauron either. I always though that the "Eye" was a metaphor. Remember that during the 2nd Age, Sauron, as Annatar, the "Giver of Gifts" was "Very beautiful" according to Tolkien in the Letters. He was able to seduce the Noldor of Eregion and only Gil-Galad and Elrond were not deceived by him. Later, after the downfall of Numenor, he could no longer assume a form that was attractive to Men( i don't have the exact quote here). Then he was slain by Gil-Galad and Elendil at the end of the S.A and it took him quite some time to gather enough strength to assume another form.

Remember Sauron is a Maia and in the beginning he could clothe himself in any physical form he desired. In Tolkien's letters, he says

"Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic. In his earlier incarnation [as Annatar] he was able to veil his power (as Gandalf did) and could appear as a commanding figure of great strength of body and supremely royal demeanour and countenance"

the first time we see Sauron's Eye is in the Mirror of Galadriel. But Galadriel says, "...the Mirror will show things unbidden, and those are often stranger and more profitable to behold. What you will see if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are and things that yet may be." After Frodo sees the Eye, Galadriel says, I know what that is that you last saw, for that is also in my Mind.

Galadriel doesn't say she has seen the Eye, she says it is in her Mind. Perhaps the Mirror is just giving physical form to an idea / sensation the Frodo feels. That is what the Mirror does, illustrate concepts.

Later, on the Amen Hen, the Seat of Seeing, "the Hill of the Eye of the Men of Numenor", with the power of the Ring, set on his finger, Frodo is able to see visions of what passes far away in the World, beyond the power of human sight. and then ... "suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an Eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep. He knew that it had become aware of his gaze... then "as a flash from some other point of power there came to his mind another thought: <em>take it off! Fool, take it off! Take off the Ring!</em> The two powers strove in him... Suddenly he was aware of himself again. Frodo, neither the Voice nor the Eye: Free to choose.

So on the Hill of Amen Hen, Frodo felt the Eye. But he didn't see it. Even when he is on the Hill of Seeing from whence he can see from the Misty Mountains to the havens of Harad. But can he see the Eye? No! He can only feel it.

Then the Voice (Gandalf) and the Eye (Sauron) strive within his mind.

We have our answer: just as the Voice is a metaphor for Gandalf, the Eye is a metaphor for Sauron.

[Gordis]

Sorry - posted again the same quote. How stupid of me - it was on the first page!

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

<sigh>
It is beginning to look that way. But however things might appear, I think I shall always envision Sauron as cyclopean in my mind's eye.
</sigh>

But I think I will keep a lookout for evidence that he was one-eyed. (What exactly did Frodo see, Sauron looking through a telescope? Was he winking? Have a mote in his eye? Just woke up? Maybe he had pinkeye?)

I suspect that Sauron had the ability to look like that if he so desired, to strike his foes with fear. However, one cannot rule out that he was maimed in the other eye during his last fight. As far as I know, JRRT never said anything about it, but he was remarkabley reticent about Sauron, especially his appearance in LotR. Has any epic or story been written in which we see so little of the villain?

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Attalus

Has any epic or story been written in which we see so little of the villain?

Indeed. I even remember a theory that in TA there was no Sauron at all: it were the Nazgul who ruled Mordor and used Sau's name to scare the Free people.

[barrelrider110]

The 'Eye' is not a metaphor, it's a vision; a perception more than anything physical. Through the mirror, one "sees". The Eye is the visual of Sauron's thought; he is revealed, but only to a ring-bearer.

Galadriel:

I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!‘

and

...the Eye began to rove, searching this way and that; and Frodo knew with certainty and horror that among the many things that it sought he himself was one. But he also knew that it could not see him-not yet, not unless he willed it.

So only a ringbearer percieves "The Eye," and once they see it, they percieve his thought. But a ringbearer has some control; or rather a ringbearer that has the power to resist Sauron, would have some control.

`Many things I can command the Mirror to reveal,’ she answered, `and to some I can show what they desire to see. But the Mirror will also show things unbidden,

Either Galadriel purposely revealed "The Eye" to Frodo, or the Mirror acted on its own as a portal.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by barrelrider110

The 'Eye' is not a metaphor, it's a vision; a perception more than anything physical. Through the mirror, one "sees". The Eye is the visual of Sauron's thought; he is revealed, but only to a ring-bearer.
So only a ringbearer percieves "The Eye,"

Well "the Eye" was the way all the Mordor Orcs referred to Sauron. They were forbidden to use his name. How would the orcs know about the Eye if it were only visible to ringbearers?

I would base on this quote:

From ‘Myths Transformed’ in Morgoth’s Ring:

... Morgoth held the Orcs in dire thraldom; for in their corruption they had lost almost all possibility of resisting the domination of his will. So great indeed did its pressure upon them become ere Angband fell that, if he turned his thought towards them, they were conscious of his ‘eye’ wherever they might be; and when Morgoth was at last removed from Arda the Orcs that survived in the West were scattered, leaderless and almost witless, and were for a long time without control or purpose.

Visual, yes, here I agree. Not only Frodo saw the Eye, but it was depicted in much the same way on all Mordor banners.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Well "the Eye" was the way all the Mordor Orcs referred to Sauron. They were forbidden to use his name. How would the orcs know about the Eye if it were only visible to ringbearers?

I would base on this quote:


Visual, yes, here I agree. Not only Frodo saw the Eye, but it was depicted in much the same way on all Mordor banners.

I think there should be credit to the Lord of the Rings movie-team in devising the sort of Sauron image that they did.

It does service to the image and nature that JRR Tolkien conveys in his book and truth be told the tower of Barad-dûr was nearly identical from what I had imagined when I read the books, tall, multi-leveled, beautifully evil and seemingly impenetrable with one all-seeing Eye at the very height.

[Attalus]

That's funny, because that was one of the things I absolutely HATE about the movie, with its 60's sci-fi eye projection. No room for the Black Hand, there.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Attalus

That's funny, because that was one of the things I absolutely HATE about the movie, with its 60's sci-fi eye projection. No room for the Black Hand, there.

I liked the Eye. It was the epithomy of Sauron's evil, on top of that black tower over that fiery chasm

[Attalus]

Esecialy the little projection frame, Jacob's Ladder style?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Well "the Eye" was the way all the Mordor Orcs referred to Sauron. They were forbidden to use his name. How would the orcs know about the Eye if it were only visible to ringbearers?

Sauron also used 'the red eye of Mordor' as his symbol. It's mentioned several times, I believe, in relation with the orc's armour.

[Attalus]

Also "the red eye of wrath," implying there was another.

[Farimir Captain of Gondor]

*2 cents*

I read the books when I was like 9 or 10 but couldn't remember details from them when the movies came out. So, their depiction of what Sauron looked like didn't really bother me. It just didn't seem that important. Then I read the books again and couldn't help but to feel like Sauron indeed had a physical body. I mean, why would someone need a road if they were a massive floating eyeball. Yes, if you go by the movies it would have to be massive. I don't think the tower of Barad-dur was tiny. I always pictured him as a shriveled, dark, man-like creature sitting in a dark room holding a "crystal ball".

I think the eye thing was a scare tactic he used. One of Saurons main 'powers' was fear. It's what drove his armies, demoralized his enemies, and IMO was the the main ingredient in making the Ring. Maybe he chose to convey himself as a snake eyed, fire engulfed, one-eyed creature. Those are three things men fear. Snakes, fire, and deformities. I know there were strange creatures in M-E but at the time when he took on a new shape the world had changed. Most awesome creatures were bedtime tales told to children. So why not take on a guise that would scare the crap outta the new gen of men.

I did remember a quote from TTT that kinda supports the cyclops Sauron:
From The Two Towers: Journey To The Cross-roads

The brief glow fell upon a huge sitting figure, still and solemn as the stone kings of Argonath. The years had gnawed it, and violent hands had maimed it. Its head was gone, and in it's place was set in mockery a round rough-hewn stone, rudely painted by savage hands in the likeness of a grinning face with one large red eye in the midst of its forehead.

It was done by orcs, no doubt, but it might have been a self portrait.

BTW- Gordis...you rock! You always have the best ideas and theories when it comes to LotR.

[Gordis]

Oh, thanks, Faramir!

[CAB]

The brief glow fell upon a huge sitting figure, still and solemn as the stone kings of Argonath. The years had gnawed it, and violent hands had maimed it. Its head was gone, and in it's place was set in mockery a round rough-hewn stone, rudely painted by savage hands in the likeness of a grinning face with one large red eye in the midst of its forehead.

Great quote Farimir. I had forgotten about that one.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Farimir Captain of Gondor

BTW- Gordis...you rock! You always have the best ideas and theories when it comes to LotR.

Originally Posted by Gordis

Oh, thanks, Faramir!

I know, Gordis is several clicks north of the rest of us in terms of knowledge=) That's why I've nominated Gordis in the Posters of the Year 2008 in the General Thread as the most knowledgable Mooter in all things LOTR

[Gordis]

Well, you make me blush... I assure you, CAB or Alcuin or Attalus or Valandil or Earniel (and quite a few more Mooters) are not a step behind me - they only don't post as often as I do.

[Olmer]

I am with you, Coffeehouse. She is not just the most knowledgable concerning all Tolkien's work, but she also has the most creative imagination and a very inquisitive mind, which leads her to stunning hypotheses.
Reading her posts is always a discovery.