Classical Music II

[Tessar]

I know a bit about the oratos he did. I actually have a recording where Cecilia Baritoli over-sings a couple of them . Don't get me wrong, she's got an amazing voice, and the oratos are incredible, but she does tend to over do them just a tad. I love those recordings anyways .

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I know a bit about the oratos he did. I actually have a recording where Cecilia Baritoli over-sings a couple of them . Don't get me wrong, she's got an amazing voice, and the oratos are incredible, but she does tend to over do them just a tad. I love those recordings anyways .

It's her wonderful ornamentation ...you should hear her fly in "The Salieri Album".



Added:

Vivaldi: Complete Cello Concertos/Ofra Harnoy
Boccherini: Complete Cello Concertos

[trolls' bane]

I love being able to merge real music and physics, in this case, biophysics. Does anyone know why there's a certain point where your voice skips an octave or so while you're bringing it down or back up. It tends to be the same, and it's also where you feel like you're running out of air. It's unusual. I just wondered if anyone had any idea.

[Elfhelm]

It doesn't skip an octave, but the timbre does change. The region where the timbre changes is called your "passagio". Above it we call that "head voice" and below it we call "chest voice".

But if you play the flute you can find the "overblow" where there is a distinct octave shift, that some people call a different "register". That's because you're playing the first overtone. If you blow even harder, the shift is an octave and a half, which is the distance to the second overtone.

Speaking of music and science, I believe there was an astronomer in the early Renaissance who used his star charts to create a composition (now lost) called The Music of the Spheres.

[trolls' bane]

Interesting. That's when they still beleived that the stars were made up of spheres.

EDIT: Listening to Nixon in China. Haven't heard it in a while, so I looked it up on Napster. They actually had it!

[trolls' bane]

Here we go! Opera and science!
Nixon (?):
Telecommunication,
has broadcast your message...
into spaaaaace!

[hectorberlioz]

Not an Adams fan actually...I prefer Glass and Reich (so far), and there's a wonderful piece called The Frontier by (David?) Heath.

[trolls' bane]

Well, I'll look that up. Nixon got on my nerves. Perhaps the recording I first listened to was the better. After all, KUSC always plays the best, when I'm not available to write them down.

[Elfhelm]

Yeah, I haven't liked those minimalist operas.

I liked William Bolcom's "A View From the Bridge". And I have been enjoying Roger Waters' new work "Ca Ira".

But mostly I don't seem to connect with any opera since Britten.

[hectorberlioz]

Have you Listened to Pfiztner's "Palestrina", Previn's "A Streetcar"? Neithe have I...but if you do, tell me about them .

[hectorberlioz]

Added:

Haydn: Trumpet and Horn Concertos/Warren-Green/Nimbus


Btw....I've really come to a fork in the road. Bach's St Matthew, which I was supposed to get a long time ago, has so many good recordings! On one hand I want to listen to FM about the Solti, but the Gardiner looks so tempting! And what about Klemperer? And McCreesh?

[Elfhelm]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Added:

Haydn: Trumpet and Horn Concertos/Warren-Green/Nimbus


Btw....I've really come to a fork in the road. Bach's St Matthew, which I was supposed to get a long time ago, has so many good recordings! On one hand I want to listen to FM about the Solti, but the Gardiner looks so tempting! And what about Klemperer? And McCreesh?

It depends on what you believe about original instruments and original choral groupings. The older, Romantic, approach is that Bach would have used the best instruments of this era if he were assembling the orchestra now, and likewise the largest groupings of voices he could get. But another approach that has come into favor is to use a small ensemble of period instruments and small choirs merged into one big double-chorus. I have participated in the latter, but never the former. One possibiltiy is to find a great version of each approach.

It can also depend on who is singing, of course.

The copy I bought was bought in haste. It the Solti. I love his style with Mahler, and he brings out the melodies here, which is cool, but I am personally inclined to the original instruments. There weren't any of those recording available when I went to the store that day, and I needed it as a reference for my bass notes. In that regard, it didn't really make me happy. I wish they had put separate track markers for each chorale, but instead they mostly leave them connected to surrounding sections.

So I'm interested in what you find out.

I know there is an "original version" out there, minus revisions Bach made in 1736, but I wouldn't find that useful until I had three or four other versions.

Here's one of the ones that intrigues me:

John Eliot Gardiner - Archiv 427648 issued in 1989. Vocal soloists are Anthony Rolfe Johnson, Andreas Schmidt, Barbara Bonney, Ann Monoyios, Anne Sofie von Otter, Michael Chance, Howard Crook, Olaf Bär, and Cornelius Hauptmann.

I like Anthony Rolfe Johnson. I have a lot of his Schubert songs on CD. I can imagine this as a worthwhile possibility.

Otto Klemperer - EMI 63058 originally issued in 1962. Vocal soloists are Peter Pears, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Christa Ludwig, Nicolai Gedda, and Walter Berry.

Yeah, I think here we will be hearing the older style of making a BIG SHOW out of the piece. But the singers are an awesome lineup, as is typical of the older approach.

Nikolaus Harnoncourt - Teldec 81036 issued in 2001. Vocal soloists are Christoph Prégardien, Matthias Gorne, Christine Schäfer, Dorothea Roschmann, Bernarda Fink, Elisabeth von Magnus, Michael Schade, Markus Schäfer, Dietrich Henschel, and Oliver Widmer.

You know, Harnoncourt has never enthused me as a passionate conductor. But as far as I know this is the first all original instruments recording.

Let me know. :-)

[hectorberlioz]

You're making it harder...

You know, I usually don't buy two performances of the same work, unless it's Berlioz or Mahler. That's why when I buy something BIG and EXPENSIVE I try to get just the right performance.

Perhaps since I have Bach's B minor Mass with Klemperer, it might be fair to get the Gardiner.

Speaking of buying two performances, I MUST get both Dutoit's reading of Les Troyen, and Davis' new and COMPLETE reading as well. The Davis is much cheaper, but they'll both be worth it.

[Elfhelm]

There's a new Davis? I borrowed one from the library in the late 70's. It was a Phillips recording. I enjoyed it, but didn't tape it at the time. I think it was a live recording.

I'd love to hear what you think of any of those Bach recordings. I should see if they have them at my local library, too.

[hectorberlioz]

Surely Elfhelm, the famous LSO Live label's releases of Davis' Barbican recordings have reached your ears!! His 4th recording of the Fantastique! I always wondered why Davis never conducted Lelio, or the Messe Solennelle...

...Equally why Gardiner has never recorded the Requiem.


I've been listnening a ton to Ofra Harnoy leading the Toronto ChamberOrch. as Cellist and Cond. through Vivaldi's Cello Concertos. Disc three is the best of the set IMO, specifically the second concerto of that disc. Awesome.

Also listened to Handel's Fireworks Music last night. Wonderful and lively stuff that makes you happy and gleeful, not to mention just a bit patriotic on the behalf of the brits

[hectorberlioz]

I got it! Beecham's famed recording of Berlioz's Fantastique!

1) the first 3 mvts outdo anything I've yet heard in interpreting this score, the march has panache, but it lacks something...the last mvt is great, except for the rather weak bells.

2) also on the disc, the Trojan March and Chasse Royale fron Les Troyen. The first is wonderful, though the string cresecendo could have been just a bit more prominent. The second piece is wonderfully done, though the chorus sounds just a tad TOO distant.

3)And here, a real highlight of the disc, Le Corsaire overture, the best of it that I've heard. It really pumps the blood into you



Also bought...

Vivaldi: The Four Seasons & Other concertos....now why would I get this? Is Vivaldi that special to me? Well...

1) He is definitely becoming a great fav of mine. I admit, his music can be pretty much the same, but what saves it from bieng anathema is the energy of it, energy that matches even Bach. I wouldn't elevate him to Bach's status, but is the rightful Third of the Baroque Three.

2)What makes this set different is that its all of the op.8 concertos, which include the 4 Seasons in addition to the other eight...


Also: Georg Szell/Cleveland/Leon Fleisher/ The Beethoven 5 Piano Concerti

Haven't listened to them yet (since I only bought them yesterday), but Gramophone says of the "Emperor" Concerto: "Not for the faint-hearted!"

[hectorberlioz]

O come on guys!


Now I'm so mad I won't reveal what greatness I bought today...

[Mercutio]

Nice hb

I will be going to college this fall, and will no longer have my dad's cds at my disposal. I have graduation gift money that I would like to spend on starting a classical collection for myself. However, I need to figure out what to buy--which pieces, composers, recordings, etc.

Here is a list from Classical Music for Dummies (don't laugh, it's an excellent book). Alphabetized by composer:

Adams: Short Ride in a Fast Machine
Adams: The Chairman Dances
Adamso: Harmonielehre
Bach: B-minor Mass
Bach: Brandenburg Concertos
Bach: Orchestral Suite no. 3
Bach: Goldberg Variations
Barber: Adagio for Strings
Barber: First and Second Essays
Barber: Knoxville, Summer of 1915
Barber: Medea’s Meditation and Dance of Vengeance
Barber: Overture to The School for Scandal
Barber: Symphony no. 1
Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra
Bartók: Divertimento for Strings
Bartók: Miraculous Mandarin Suite
Bartók: Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta
Bartók: Romanian Dances
Beethoven: Piano Concerto no. 5
Beethoven: Symphonies no. 3, 5, 7, & 9
Beethoven: Violin Concerto in D major
Berg: Violin Concerto
Berlioz: Roman Carnival Overture
Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique
Bernstein: Symphonic Dances from West Side Story
Bizet: Carmen Suites 1 & 2
Bloch: Concerto Grosso no. 1
Brahms: Symphonies no. 1, 2, 3, & 4
Britten: Young Person’s Guide to the Orchestra
Bruckner: Symphony no. 3 & 5
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Corigliano: Symphony no. 1
Debussy: La Mer
Debussy: Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun
Dvořák: Cello Concerto in B minor
Dvořák: Serenade for Strings in E major
Dvořák: Serenade in E-flat major
Dvořák: Symphony no. 9 (New World)
Elgar: Enigma Variations
Falla: Three Cornered Hat: Three Dances
Franck: Symphony in D minor
Gershwin: An American in Paris
Gershwin: Piano Concerto in F
Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue
Gershwin: American in Paris
Gorecki: Symphony no. 3
Grieg: Peer Gynt Suite no.1
Grieg: Piano Concerto in A minor
Handel: Concerto Grosso
Handel: Messiah
Handel: Water Music
Haydn: Symphony no. 104 in D major
Haydn: Symphony no. 94 (Surprise)
Haydn: London Symphonies
Hindemith: Mathis der Maler Symphony
Holst: The Planets
Ives: Symphony no. 2
Ives: The Unanswered Question
Janáček: Taras Bulba
Kodaly: Dances of Galanta
Kodaly: Peacock Variations
Liszt: Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2
Mahler: Rückertlieder
Mahler: Symphonies no. 1, 2, 4, 5, & 9
Mendelssohn: Symphony no. 3 (Scottish)
Mendelssohn: Symphony no. 4 (Italian)
Mozart: Piano Concerto no. 21
Mozart: Viloin Concerto no. 5 in A major
Mozart:Piano Concerto in C minor
Mozart:Symphony no. 40 in G minor
Mussorgsky-Ravel: Pictures at an Exhibition
Nielsen: Symphony no. 3 (Sinfonia espansiva)
Nielsen: Symphony no. 4 (The Inextinguishable)
Orff: Carmina Burana
Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
Prokofiev: Scythian Suite
Prokofiev: Symphony no. 1 (Classical)
Prokofiev: Symphony no. 5
Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto no. 2 & 3
Rachmaninoff: Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini
Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances
Ravel: Boléro (Oh but I hate that piece)
Ravel: Daphnis and Chloé
Ravel: La Valse
Ravel: Rhapsodie espagnole
Rimsky-Korsakov: Capriccio Espagnol
Rimsky-Korsakov: Sheherazade
Rodrigo: Concierto de Aranjuez
Rossini: overtures
Rossini: William Tell Overture
Saint-Saëns: Carnival of the Animals
Schoenberg: Gurrelieder
Schoenberg: Verklärte Nacht
Schubert: Symphony no. 5 in B-flat major
Schubert: Symphony no. 8
Schumann: Symphony no. 2 in C major
Shostakovich: Symphony no. 1 & 5
Sibelius: Finlandia
Sibelius: Symphonies no. 1 & 2
Sibelius: Violin Concerto
Smetana: The Moldau (second tone poem from Ma Vlast I)
Strauss, J.: Blue Danube Waltz
Strauss, R.: Also sprach Zarathustra
Strauss, R.: Don Juan
Strauss, R.: Don Quixote
Strauss, R.: Ein Heldenleben
Strauss, R.: Till Eulenspiegel’s Merry Pranks
Stravinsky: Firebird Suite
Stravinsky: Petrushka
Stravinsky: Pulcinella Suite
Stravinsky: Rite of Spring
Tchaikovsky: Nutcracker Suite
Tchaikovsky: Symphony no. 6
Tschaikovsky: Piano Concerto no. 1 in B-flat major
Tschaikovsky: Romeo and Juliet
Tschaikovsky: Symphonies no. 4 & 5
Tschaikovsky: Violin Concerto in D major
Verdi: Requiem
Vivaldi: Concerto for Four Violins
Vivaldi: Four Seasons
Vivaldi: Guitar Concerto in D major
Wagner: Flying Dutchman Overture
Wagner: Rienzi Overture
Wagner: Tannhäuser Overture
Wagner: Tristan and Isolde
Weber: Der Freischütz Overture
Webern: Passacaglia, opus 1

--------------

What's the most important? Then, what are the best recordings?

I do plan on reading online reviews, and will by things from arkivmusic.com, amazon, or Borders (I have a card that gets me 15% off there).

--------------

There are some personal cds I would get, not needed for a basic collection but that I really like--such as Mihlaud & Poulenc chamber music.

[hectorberlioz]

Huh? Why is half of Barber and Bartok's work more essential than Berlioz's "Harold en Italie", "Romeo et Juliette", the Requiem!? Thats the thing about this "lists", they're really biased, ALWAYS BIASED against Berlioz. As if the only notes worth hearing that Berlioz penned were the Symphonie Fantastqiue!

Now I'm really riled! It's one thing to recommend every single thing Bach ever wrote and only suggest a few of every other composer, but to "go comprehensive" on composers like Barber (who is a great composer, I agree), but limit Berlioz's voice to only the Symphonie Fantastique? It's a crime just as bad as saying that Beethoven's Fifth is his only great work, the only one worth hearing.

It's not so much that they dare to recommend so many things on one some composers, its that they NEVER go beyond the Sym. Fan. when it comes time to recommend Berlioz! I'm sick and tired of it!
I've said this before, and I swear its true: "high-minded" classical snobs would rather listen to the most obscure Debussy piece from hell than to anything Berlioz wrote. They act as if Debussy re-composed Beethoven or something. Oh yeah? Well I'd rather listen to the most obscure thing Franz Berwald wrote than ANYTHING Debussy wrote, and Ravel for that matter! So there!

Am I to be fooled into thinking that this "list" they compile is really so limited in space that they HAVE to only recommend one thing by Berlioz, but everything by Barber, and Adams? (despicable! hardly the greatest composer living today! That goes to Zwilich or Glass...)

And notice that they exclude Messiaen, who is a thousand times worthier to be represented "comprehensively" than Adams or Barber.

Since when were only two on Mendelssohn's symphonies the only works reprentative of him?

My advice Merc? Go get yourself the "Gramophone Guide"

[hectorberlioz]

Elisabeth Jacquet de la Guerre (1666-1729)
Hildegard von Bingen (1098-1179)
Fanny Mendelssohn-Hensel (1803-1847)
Clara Schumann (1819-1896)
Lili Boulangar (1893-1918)
Nadia Boulangar (1887-1980)
Louise Bertin
Amy Beach (1867-1944)
Thea Musgrave (1928-?)
Elisabeth Lutyens (1928-?)
Ruth Crawfor Seeger (1901-1953)
Dame Ethel Smyth
Laurie Anderson
Elsa Respighi
Kaija Saariaho (1952-?)
Marion Bauer
Sofia Gubaidulina (1931-?)
Roxanna Panufnik (1968-?)
Gloria Coates (1938-?)
Gabriela Lena Frank
Augusta Thomas Read
Ellen Taffe Zwilich
Joan Tower
Jennifer Higdon
Cecile Chaminade (1857-1944)