Egypt is the origin of Christianity, Judaism & Islam

[BeardofPants]

And I haven't even gotten started on the problematic timeframe of all this. There is a sizable number of years between the time of Ramesses II (1302BC) and Moses (1527 BCE). And lemme tell you right now, the evidence that Ramesses II was the Pharaoh at the time of Moses/enslavement is SEVERELY problematic not least because of the timeframes. There is no mention in the extensive historical records of the time of a plague during Ramesses II reign, nor that Israel, etc were independent states at that time. Far more likely Moses existed during the earlier Hyksos intermediate period reign (although that theory is problematic as well, as they did not undertake such extensive building projects as Ramesses II), in which case, you could not possibly link to Ramesses II.

[The Telcontarion]

I should know better, but eh.

Firstly, that IS nefertiti's name. Transliteration of her full name FROM EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHICS is : nfr.t-iitj 'the beauty (beautiful one) which (who) has come'. She never went by the name of Maryam. Ever. Period Polka dot. She was married to Amenhotep the IV, who later became Akhenaten, the pharaoh who put forward Aten as the sole god of creation.

The site that you have put up talks about NEFERTARI, not Nefertiti as being the 'mother' of God. The transliteration of her full name FROM EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHICS is : nfri-try mryt n mwt, which translates to 'The lovely one, beloved of Mut (Mother/Cosmic Waters - deification).

YOUR 'FACTS' ARE COMPLETELY FULL OF BUNK. Why don't you actually try verify some of this stuff first before trolling, and wasting our time?

<edit> Your 'Maryam' most likely is sourced from Ramesses II's nomen name as I posted above - beloved of Amun, mryamn.

All this over a difference of opinion and you are going on and on over a typo; I am not the first to confuse those names. First of all it is not my, facts, OK. I did say I wanted people to go and check the site out, so when I said that about nefertiti...I was using the info on the site to get you to look at it. You were trying to make statements at the time and arguements without checking out the information first, just responding to my post as I responded to other replies; which is ridiculous and that is indeed trolling without sincere attempts at looking at the info.

The reason I am responding to you right now is because it seems now that you have finally looked at the material and are indeed talking about the info there; I did say I wanted to see if people could make a convincing argument other than, what is on the site.

All I get from you is hate and hostility, and personal attacks (trolling my rear end!!!) over a difference of opinion? I do not believe you are here for honest discourse, you have lost credibility with me and after I respond briefly (I mean very briefly) to your most recent post, I will no longer respond to you at all.(watered down version of earlier statment-maybe they didn't like the word hate-I am going to put it back in, tired of waiting)

**editied by MOD** do not attack nor disparage the poster

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

And I haven't even gotten started on the problematic timeframe of all this. There is a sizable number of years between the time of Ramesses II (1302BC) and Moses (1527 BCE). And lemme tell you right now, the evidence that Ramesses II was the Pharaoh at the time of Moses/enslavement is SEVERELY problematic not least because of the timeframes. There is no mention in the extensive historical records of the time of a plague during Ramesses II reign, nor that Israel, etc were independent states at that time. Far more likely Moses existed during the earlier Hyksos intermediate period reign (although that theory is problematic as well, as they did not undertake such extensive building projects as Ramesses II), in which case, you could not possibly link to Ramesses II.

**post edited** flame bait (waiting on moderator before I repost, because I don't know how else it should be said)
(I refuse to wait any longer)

If you knew the claims made on the site, you would not say something so utterly ridiculous!!! I have said somewhere else on entmoot,

**YOU ARE AGAIN CAUTIONED NOT TO RE-EDIT MODERATORS EDITS*** DO NOT PERSIST IN BAITING

[Rosie Gamgee]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

But at the same time I disagree with Rosie using that passage in which Jesus clearly dates the events in the lifetime of his listeners. People often leave out that part of the quote and, like Dan Brown, leap over logic to say that Jesus was talking about our own times.

But the quote I showed is not dated, and it does pertain to all time.

The quote I used referred to the fact that those signs (wars, rumors, earthquakes, false teachings, etc.) are the 'beginning of birth pangs'. Yes, the birth-pangs began in that generation's time. They have been increasing since then. We see them increase today. The prophecy is still relevant. He said, "The end is yet to come." (but, I'm not trying to fight; just explain where I 'get off', if you will. )

[Spock]

What ever happened to the history of Mesopotamia as being the 'cradle of civilization'? Wouldn't that also lead into this ?

[Elfhelm]

I won't reply anymore, personally, other than this:

Rosie, ah, I see now.

BoP, you're awesome as always.

Moderators, there is a post title that contains an offensive personal attack. Thanks.

[durinsbane2244]

wow. i am a tad suprised at that little discourse. we're just here to talk, gents. take it outside! and never...ever...change a mod edit...

[Spock]

REMINDER TO ALL POSTERS

Do not inflame others by calling them names.

Debate is fine, name calling is not.

Do Not re-edit an Admin or Mod post, PM the party for clarification if necessary.

[The Telcontarion]

This could and quite frankly should have been prevented. My points on this was made elsewhere:

http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=13281

However I will appoligize to the moderators for changing the edits. Maybe in the future they will be better at seeing where peoples comments will lead and practice better prevention.

[durinsbane2244]

they're mods for a reason, man. they know what should and shouldn't be edited. don't go criticizing them because your post got changed. geez. no wonder some members don't come to the GM...

[Spock]

Prevention is very difficult on a board; intervention and correction are about the best we can do when members forget the rules or get too heated in their cause.

[durinsbane2244]

well, i hope lessons are learned...moot should be peaceful.

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Spock

Prevention is very difficult on a board; intervention and correction are about the best we can do when members forget the rules or get too heated in their cause.

I appreciate your efforts Spock.

[BeardofPants]

Actually Telcontarion, as I have studied Egyptology, the first thing I did was read the site. It was a waste of my time, which explains the first comment I made on this thread. But (and I'm sorry, but this is not a personal attack, but an observation) your willful ignorance, and the outrageous and incorrect postulations on that site needed to be addressed. I'm sorry that you can't handle my blunt manner of debate. ::shrug:: As far as your 'typo' goes, fine, but in any case, neither one of those historical figures (either Nefertari or Nefertiti) went by "Maryam", so my point still stands as made in my second post on this thread. Furthermore, "Maryam"/Mary is likely sourced from the Aramaic-root which means "bitter" - completely opposite to the meanings of Ramesses (R-ms-sw - he who is born of Re/Re bore him), Nefertari, and Nefertiti (both names derived from things of beauty). AND BOTH EGYPTIAN NAMES not 'made up' names like you attempted to argue. I think you're just being pissy because I've clearly proven you wrong. ::shrug::

Further to the timeline, how is that point not relevant? You postulate that Moses and Ramesses II are the same person, yet there is a vista of historical and archaeological evidence that places them in two different eras. Moses likely existed concurrently with the Second Intermediate Period (the Hyksos 'invasion' which lasted until Dynasty 17 of the Middle Kingdom), and Ramesses II didn't come along until Dynasty 19. I would think that that is a very valid point to make in this 'debate', and I use that loosely, because I've yet to see you make a single valid point in this thread.

If you can't back up your arguments, and continue to dance around the issue, then as far as I am concerned, all you ARE doing is trolling. Now why don't you simply stick to debating, post up some actual arguments instead of dancing around, and we'll actually get somewhere?

Now, can you please explain how the removing the vowels from fictional characters such as Elendil makes it somehow implied that Tolkien was drawing from Egyptian sources when he created Elendil's name for instance?

(and thanks Elfhelm - it's dirty work, but someone's gotta do it.)

[Elfhelm]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

Yeah, and the Sphinx was constructed in the 26th century BC. So someone had to have some awesome prophetic powers to make a statue of him 1,000 years before he was born! And I didn't know he looked like a cat?!

BoP, I attempted to point out the cracked timeline, too. That site says the Sphinx is a statue of Abraham. Umm... that's just... I don't know. If 1,000 years difference isn't enough to convince someone, nothing will.

But this all does make me wish we could have a REAL discussion about Ancient Egypt. Maybe on another thread, someday. This one has expired, I think. /me sniffs Yeah, I think it's getting old.

[BeardofPants]

We could just shanghai this one? So... Elfhelm, who's yer fav pharaoh? *rofl*

[Elfhelm]

Sanders?

[BeardofPants]

Oh, and poor Khafre, gettin' supplanted by Abraham.

[The Telcontarion]

I will not say I have not been sold on anything, actually that's why I was insisting on you people going to the site and reading it; maybe then you could pose an arguement that could convince me otherwise than what is stated there.

Maybe your memory is selective, and being blunt and being rude is 2 different things.

Are you trying to say I can't tell the difference.

[BeardofPants]

Oh yes? 1940AD? methinks you're playin' with the timeframes as well.