Christopher Lee...MAD!!!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
We are talking here about whether the same seven minutes of film showing the end of Saruman are first shown in the theatrical release or the extended DVD version next fall. Period.

Avoiding the question I see - because BoP has a good point.

[Katherine]

oh boy! .............. ~ahem~


While I can agree that some complaints I've seen on the net are a bit nit picky ... after all we've all seen books done as movies before and should realize that some things will change .... *however* deleting Saruman from RotK leaves a hole in the storyline ....

Are we to believe that he is still just sitting in his ruined tower with Wormtounge? He's too powerful a person to just disappear like that and I doubt if the viewing public will understand why he is just gone.... with a person like that there is always a backlash he's too used to power and control to just go silently away .... and personally so what if it would seem like a "wrapping up" of TTT? .... The movies and the books should not be viewed as seperate creations but as a whole .... I'm sure that when the last movie is released on DVD there will be many a loooooong weekend of viewing the movies back to back and I can't imagine we're alone in that ....

[Black Breathalizer]

A film to a director is like a painting to an artist. All artists strive for perfection. Please give Peter Jackson the latitude to craft the perfect ROTK movie.

PJ felt it would be a better film without Saruman. Until I see the movie, I will wait and see and avoid the temptation to whine about something we all know nothing about.

[Katherine]

Whine?

I thought I was expressing an opinion .......which I thought I had every right to do .... you certainly seem to think you have that right .... odd that you would not extend the same to others ...

Oh well .......... I just received a new research paper on an archaeological dig on paleoindians ........ that seems more interesting to me at the moment so I'll bow out of this discussion which I seem to not have a right to discuss ....

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Katherine
I thought I was expressing an opinion .......which I thought I had every right to do .... you certainly seem to think you have that right .... odd that you would not extend the same to others ...

I never said you couldn't whine if you wanted to. By all means, whine away. If you want to rail against a film decision you know nothing about, be my guest.

[Melko Belcha]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
A film to a director is like a painting to an artist. All artists strive for perfection. Please give Peter Jackson the latitude to craft the perfect ROTK movie.

PJ felt it would be a better film without Saruman. Until I see the movie, I will wait and see and avoid the temptation to whine about something we all know nothing about.

It's just to bad that PJ has a paint-by-the-numbers, but he seems not to be able to follow the numbers.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Katherine
Whine?

I thought I was expressing an opinion .......which I thought I had every right to do .... you certainly seem to think you have that right .... odd that you would not extend the same to others ...

Oh well .......... I just received a new research paper on an archaeological dig on paleoindians ........ that seems more interesting to me at the moment so I'll bow out of this discussion which I seem to not have a right to discuss ....

Don't worry about him. He thinks no one should express their opinion unless it's to praise Jackson. But you have to learn - he doesn't feel he has opinions - he only has facts and if you don't agree with them - then you are obviously wrong.

[azalea]

While like most everyone, I can see his point about "moving on" to the next movie, I (predictably) think it should be left in. It is necessary to wrap up his storyline for the audience, since we won't have the Scouring. Aside from that, I sure would like to see it on the big screen, and not on my little one when the EE comes out. Not everyone can go to whatever special screenings they might have next year, nor can everyone afford a big screen tv. Part of the beauty of movies is the "big screen" experience, and every time something is moved to the dvd, we lose that experience for those scenes. I think he underestimates the audience's ability to appreciate having that in, rather he seems to think the audience will see it as an "intrusion." Doesn't he know by now that it won't be?
My guess is that he keeps moving this stuff because in post production, they do all the added CG stuff, and he wants to put that in, but must cut from elsewhere to keep to the allotted time.

Katherine, of course you can post your opinions here. If you find that anyone in particular continually offends you, you can always put them on your "ignore" list. Don't let anyone get on your nerves to the point that you feel "strongarmed" into not posting. If you choose not to post, do it because you don't want to, not because of what others are saying. And welcome to Entmoot.
(Also, after you hang around here a while you'll get used to the posting styles of all the different mooters)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
I never said you couldn't whine if you wanted to. By all means, whine away. If you want to rail against a film decision you know nothing about, be my guest.

And BB - how do you defend your support for film decisions you know nothing about?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Melko Belcha
It's just to bad that PJ has a paint-by-the-numbers, but he seems not to be able to follow the numbers.

My feelings exactly. He took a lot of stuff from film class 101. Too bad he didn't take the 500 series classes.

[thranduil]

Originally posted by Katherine
Whine?

I thought I was expressing an opinion .......which I thought I had every right to do .... you certainly seem to think you have that right .... odd that you would not extend the same to others ...

Oh well .......... I just received a new research paper on an archaeological dig on paleoindians ........ that seems more interesting to me at the moment so I'll bow out of this discussion which I seem to not have a right to discuss ....

Don't worry about it. When I first came here (not to long ago) some "people" wanted to boycott my posts. Hows that for not being able to share your opinion. Although I think that the movie will still work and make sense, (like faramir in EE) i still signed the petition.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
A film to a director is like a painting to an artist. All artists strive for perfection. Please give Peter Jackson the latitude to craft the perfect ROTK movie.

Not exactly - he's more like an artist that illustartes a book - he had the story written already.
Or, if you want, he paints a picture that was already drawn. He didn't need to think much about what the characters will say or do.

[Black Breathalizer]

Saruman's orc soldiers are destroyed, his orc-making caves have been flooded, and he's left alone with Wormtongue in Orthanc. Most of the non-Tolkien audience would assume from these facts that he's been defeated. So I can understand why Peter Jackson felt he could eliminate it from the theatrical cut as long as he had a way to deal with the discovery of the palantir.

Like other lovers of the books, I question this decision too but I'm not going to have a knee-jerk negative reaction to it until I see exactly how he's handled it. His goal is to create the best film possible.

The stakes are incredibly high. He's shooting for a final LOTR film that:
1) ties the three films together;
2) remains faithful to Tolkien's vision;
3) wins the Academy Award for Best Picture; and
4) becomes only the second movie in film history to gross over a billion dollars at the box office.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
Saruman's orc soldiers are destroyed, his orc-making caves have been flooded, and he's left alone with Wormtongue in Orthanc. Most of the non-Tolkien audience would assume from these facts that he's been defeated. So I can understand why Peter Jackson felt he could eliminate it from the theatrical cut as long as he had a way to deal with the discovery of the palantir.

Of course you do. ;rolleyes:

Like other lovers of the books, I question this decision too but I'm not going to have a knee-jerk negative reaction to it until I see exactly how he's handled it. His goal is to create the best film possible.

Why lie and just admit now that you'll think he handled it in the only way possible and in no way could it have been better. Throw in a couple of jackson is a pure genius in there while you're at it to.

The stakes are incredibly high. He's shooting for a final LOTR film that:
1) ties the three films together;
2) remains faithful to Tolkien's vision;
3) wins the Academy Award for Best Picture; and
4) becomes only the second movie in film history to gross over a billion dollars at the box office.

Why stay faithful now - he hasn't through any of the other films. The goal of a good director shouldn't be to win best picture - it should be to produce a good movie and HOPEFULLY they will win the best picture. It should not be a goal though. Also- being a top grossing film - because todays top grossers don't compare to the top grossers of the past. When you compare them in todays dollars - the films of today don't come close to the money the old films brought in. Also - a film that makes a lot - isn't necessarily good anyone.

[cassiopeia]

I know why everybody's dissapointed: they wanted to see Saruman die on the big, spiky wheel.

Seriously, I am wondering now what will happen if, as it seems, Pippin doesn't get his hands on the palantir. In the book he looks in and Sauron thinks Pippin has the Ring. All of Sauron's thoughts are bent away from Sam and Frodo, but if he doesn't think Pippin has the Ring, he will be searching other places. Add this to the fact that he probably knows the Ring is near or at Osgiliath (since Frodo practically handed the Nazgul the Ring), and you have a major plot problem. Why doesn't Sauron send all his servants to Osgiliath to claim the Ring? Why even bother sending his armies to Minas Tirith?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I know why everybody's dissapointed: they wanted to see Saruman die on the big, spiky wheel.

Seriously, I am wondering now what will happen if, as it seems, Pippin doesn't get his hands on the palantir. In the book he looks in and Sauron thinks Pippin has the Ring. All of Sauron's thoughts are bent away from Sam and Frodo, but if he doesn't think Pippin has the Ring, he will be searching other places. Add this to the fact that he probably knows the Ring is near or at Osgiliath (since Frodo practically handed the Nazgul the Ring), and you have a major plot problem. Why doesn't Sauron send all his servants to Osgiliath to claim the Ring? Why even bother sending his armies to Minas Tirith?

They never said they were cutting Pippin and the palatir, apparently he will be looking into it at Meduseld from what I read. I posted the quote in this thread too...

From TheOneRing.net:

Most of the outcomes of the confrontation at Isengard are plot trivialities with no great plot implications - except the Palantir. We've seen images of Aragorn holding it, and the implication is that Pippin does use it at Meduseld. I'll be keen to see how effectively Walsh, Boyens and Jackson rework that.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by Dúnedain
They never said they were cutting Pippin and the palatir, apparently he will be looking into it at Meduseld from what I read. I posted the quote in this thread too...

But how will Gandalf get it if it's sitting in Orthanc? Surely Saruman will put up a fight for it?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
But how will Gandalf get it if it's sitting in Orthanc? Surely Saruman will put up a fight for it?

That's what we are trying to figure out now that the Saruman scene is cut

I'm guessing they will only mention it or something, but I honestly have no idea

[Dúnedain]

Here is something that was taken from the Return of the King production notes:

As The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King begins, Pippin's (Billy Boyd) curiosity places his hands on the Palantir at Isengard, a device that links him to Sauron's eye, convincing the Dark Lord that Pippin is The Ringbearer. "After Pippin takes the Palintir, Gandalf realizes Pippin is in grave danger and decides that the only safe place they can go to is Minis Tirith," says Billy Boyd. "So, Pippin finds himself in another country and a new adventure."
It is the first time that Merry and Pippin have been separated since their journey began. "They are two friends who operate almost as one," comments Philippa Boyens. "But even when ripped apart, they stay true to each other, because of what they've learned from each other, which is one of the gifts of friendship."

[Tuor of Gondolin]

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by cassiopeia
But how will Gandalf get it if it's sitting in Orthanc? Surely Saruman will put up a fight for it?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I imagine it will be something like:
Gandalf: "Well, Saruman's obsession with the Ring has destroyed him. Look what Treebeard has sent us." yadda, yadda, yadda.