What would make you go to war/ or kill

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Originally posted by Renille
CAN girls be drafted????

No. According to current U.S. code, which I don't think Congress changed, women may volunteer (and many do) but aren't subject to the draft as men are. I think the top age for men is 45 or 46, but it's been a long time since I checked.

OK, the "dog" theme has been commented on. What really surprises me is the "if I had something worth fighting for" theme from, presumably, Americans...you know, citizens of the country other people want to visit so they can see poor people who are fat; the inheritors of everything from TJ's "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to Dr. King's "I have a dream"; and so forth.

Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got til it's gone
---- J. Mitchell

You don't know what you've got, so it's not gone yet. But it is one of those "use it or lose it" kinds of things. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life missing what you never realized you had until it was too late?

Or is it just a subliminal query from a generation who's only had it stressed to them what's wrong with America rather than the universe of Americana that is good.

Is that so? Are you all really asking: "what's worth fighting for"?

Well, if I told you, why should you believe me? You have the answer. You live it every day, regardless of what anyone tells you or ever has told you. That is what "inalienable" means. But you have to see it for yourself.

If you don't know how to begin to look, a suggestion would be to start in the direction of whatever held the most meaning for you personally when you first heard the news that terrorists had attacked us in New York and Washington, and that we had fought back on at least one front, in the skies over Pennsylvania.

"We." Think about it.

[gimli-son-of-gloin13]

that would be horrible to be drafted!!!!!!!!

[francod]

At the end of candide volataire wonders if it is better to be raped and enslaved rather than be bored. If going to war were available to me I would go to experience it. That is the truth.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by wahine
Note: the feminists who want to be equal with men haven't ever brought up this interesting issue

(regarding women being drafted)

Yes, I know; it seems that a lot of them want to be treated like equals, and yet still treated like ladies. Can they have it both ways?

[Rána Eressëa]

The only time anyone would ever possibly die by my hands is if it was in self-defense. Period. With a captial P.

Women shouldn't be drafted because of what happened in Desert Storm in the early 90's.

And about the whole "equal rights" thing: being drafted isn't a right --- it's a requirement. A right would be freely signing up for battle/war, which women are allowed to do. Therefore, it isn't infringing upon the equal rights that women have been fighting for the last century (actually, it's been longer than that, so let's just say "since they've been listened to" as well).

[Huan]

I don't think women OR men should be drafted, and I also think women who do want to fight on the front lines should be allowed to do so. If that's what they want, let them. And let me NOT do it!

[Finmandos12]

I don't think women OR men should be drafted

Sometimes its a military necessity. However, it won't be happening anytime soon: modern war is too complicated for a couple of weeks of boot camp to train you adequately

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Originally posted by Finmandos12
Sometimes its a military necessity. However, it won't be happening anytime soon: modern war is too complicated for a couple of weeks of boot camp to train you adequately

Also, in the national policy magazine, Good Housekeeping , this month, Laura Bush said:

(Interviewer asks): So you don't anticipate that there will be a draft?

No.

But she also said, just before that:

...all the young people who have chosen to serve in the military--and this is a military where people choose to serve; it's not a draft--also take their role very, very seriously. I've visited bases all over the United States; in Aviano, Italy; and in Bosnia. And at every one of those bases, I see young people who know that their duty to their country is very, very important. And they're willing to sacrifice. Not only are they willing to sacrifice, but their family members have to sacrifice, because they'll be gone for those months.

I think that's where a lot of the emotional overlay about the "horrors" of the draft comes in -- and I'm not referring to any posters here: rather the culture you grew up in, which I and my fellows are responsible for (though sometimes it seems like one big traffic accident...sorry!).

Anyway, take away that emotional overlay, and you've got them, serving, committing, doing, and you've got you, doing...what? It can be very uncomfortable, so quick, bring back the emotion, the "horror," the no-brainer one-liners, etc. Anything to avoid thinking about it that deeply.

Of course, as you point out, Finmandos12, sometimes it is a military necessity, and usually at such a time there will be a different emotional overlay in ascendance, a sort of "post-Pearl Harbor" feeling that will make the draft look very different indeed.

Happy the people (and they are few and I don't claim to be one of them) who can look at it without emotion and make their own decisions with clear heads and strong hearts. Such people usually end up in leadership positions, in the military and in civilian life, and we are all better off for it.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

But they want all of the rights, and none of the requirements! That makes no sense, IMO!

[Rána Eressëa]

How many men do you think want the requirements? Certainly they don't either, but if you look at the natural roles of men and women---most men are built for fighting. Women generally aren't; most of them are smaller, less broader, and have less natural strength than men do. Those women can certainly train themselves (as well as many weaker men, because let's face it: they do exist), and therefore can become prepared for battle, but they should not be required because they are not nearly as strong as men are---once again, not including the training.

Aside from that, let's look at the main reason why throughout human history women don't go to battle: babies. Reproduction of the human race. How many babies can be reproduced if you have 1 woman and 10 men? One a year. How many babies can be reproduced if you have 10 women and 1 man? Ten a year. So in order to produce a fair amount of babies you want more women than men (a.k.a. men's lives are more disposable than women's lives). It hurts, but it's true.

That is why the government doesn't draft women (and doubtfully ever will unless the day comes when the US population consists of 5% men and 95% women---because losing some of those women wouldn't hurt, but losing some of the men would).

[Gwaimir Windgem]

But we accept them. If you have the same rights, you should have the same duties.

I suppose I'm coming off as rather sexist; but I'm not. I just think that that is not fair.

[Rána Eressëa]

Did you read my little paragraph on reproduction? You can't make babies, can you?

That's the number one reason. Number two, most women are naturally less stronger than most men.

Rights and duties have nothing to do with survival, which is why you want to be careful who you send to war. Look at it from a logical point of view, and you'll see my point.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I agree that it is logical. But is it logical to allow people to speak out against the government? America is about privileges, and with privileges come responsibility. And anyway, there's certainly not a great lack of population in America.

[Rána Eressëa]

You may not see it as fair, but it is intelligent and sufficient. We aren't worried about fairness here; we're worried about what's the best way to go about war. Sending children isn't exactly going to help you, but wouldn't it be fair for the adults?

Whether our population is low or not doesn't matter. Human instinct is to have as many as your kind as possible in order to survive.

Don't get me started on government. That's one of the worst establishments we've ever come up with, so naturally I don't like it. But in this matter, I agree with them because it's one of their few smart and efficient ideas.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

No, children are too young to protect themselves. That is not true of women.

Ok, Intelligence is advanced; Instinct is primal. You can't really have it both ways.

So you think women should have all privileges, but no responsibilities?

[Rána Eressëa]

No. I'm just saying it's stupid to draft women to war. Requiring them to do other things is okay if it's smart. Forcing them to go to war isn't.

This is why I don't like feminists. They give men the wrong impression.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hmm, I'm curious: What kind of things should women be forced to do?

[frodosgirlfriend]

To Kill- If somebody Killed my best friend or hurt her in any way.

To go to War- I could never go to war. If women got drafted and i did, i still wouldn't go.

[Finmandos12]

How many babies can be reproduced if you have 10 women and 1 man? Ten

Are you in favor of polygamy?

[wahine]

Originally posted by frodosgirlfriend
To Kill- If somebody Killed my best friend or hurt her in any way.

To go to War- I could never go to war. If women got drafted and i did, i still wouldn't go.

You wouldn't go? That is disgusting show of the most unpatriotic load of horses dung. People like you, who would give up freedom for peace, don't deserve freedom!!!

*deep breath*

I'm better now.