Big Bad World

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Sween
only say sorry if you mean it. I make no appolgies every but i have an uncanny nack of worming my way out of trouble of slipping into the shadows and not been caught

I will mean it. I never apologize without meaning it, so have no fear.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by osszie
BoP that's just terrible could your brother not trade for a loo roll

Well, the procedure with toilet paper is, apparently, trade your old toilet roll in for a new toilet roll - you don't have an empty, ya don't get a new one. And since there was no empty in his cell when he went in, well....

[Cirdan]

*note: always bring a cache of old tp rolls on any trip to NZ*

[BeardofPants]

Cirdan, what are you planning on doing to my beautiful country?

(Don't you know that they'll strip search you? "What's this then, eh? A toilet roll, eh? Can't 'ave that, mate." )

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Cirdan, what are you planning on doing to my beautiful country?

(Don't you know that they'll strip search you? "What's this then, eh? A toilet roll, eh? Can't 'ave that, mate." )

I've got to get my kicks somehow.

I would probably spend all my time going, "Hey, this looks like Middle Earth."

[Starr Polish]

I'm not going to say you're whining, RE, but I do agree with some of the above posts.

Worse than whining, you're echoing the things I hear everyday among the mindless, immature children (not that I am an adult) that parade around my school thinking that they have enough experience and intelligence to know exactly how to work the world.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
Is that how you think my mind works? Okay then.

I have, however, had some strong disagreements with what Wal-mart is doing to me because I have my own standards of what a mistake is, and what they are doing is just as bad as what I did, if not worse. I may have taken $17 worth of products that they got back, but I do not see fairness in them taking $150 and maybe more of mine. I find that childish.

You don't seem to understand that your standards don't matter here. The law is the law and the rules are the rules. You do not see fairness in them taking $150.00 eventhough you only took $17.00? Is that what you are saying? Well, stop and think a minute. If you hadn't taken anything at all and put yourself in that position, then you wouldn't be paying 1 cent. When you commit a crime, you better be prepared to pay the price. You knew it was wrong, so don't do it again, and hopefully, you've learned a lesson.

And I don't remember saying, "Treat me like an adult, you big meanies!"

I really wish people would stop taking things the wrong way these days. [/B]

I wouldn't dream of treating you like an adult. Just don't do it again. You do know right from wrong don't you? Next time, don't act like an idiot.

[osszie]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair

I wouldn't dream of treating you like an adult. Just don't do it again. You do know right from wrong don't you? Next time, don't act like an idiot.

yup

[Rána Eressëa]

Well, today was D-Day.

When we got there, there wasn't a judge or a probabtion officier. There was a man there, though, that told us I wouldn't have to have probation (the judge heeded the counsellor's letter) and all I had to do was sign a paper saying I'd stay out of trouble for 3 months and it's over. You can imagine how surprised I was. I'm relieved now.

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I wouldn't dream of treating you like an adult.

Yeah, I know - I'm smarter than that.

The world is attempting to perfect itself with the illusion of right and wrong. Law is there to try and mold us to be perfect and to live up to the expectations of religious beliefs of what makes a person good. After seeing this go on for thousands and thousands of years, humans tend to believe whatever they're told about right and wrong. You fall under that categorey, whereas I don't.

That statement originally would make me mad, but I'm looking at it with a light-hearted attitude because it was meant to make me feel inferior, childish, and stupid. In your set of beliefs that may be so - I'm can't agrue with that. But under my beliefs, well, that's a different story. And what are your beliefs but another point of view? Just because many people believe in something (for here, let's say right and wrong) it still does not become the truth. Right and wrong are merely a part of knowledge, which can be changed. Truth is eternal, and right and wrong have nothing to do with it. Reality simply has no moral treatises.

There's my childish speech of the day.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Well, today was D-Day.

When we got there, there wasn't a judge or a probabtion officier. There was a man there, though, that told us I wouldn't have to have probation (the judge heeded the counsellor's letter) and all I had to do was sign a paper saying I'd stay out of trouble for 3 months and it's over. You can imagine how surprised I was. I'm relieved now.

I would say you were very lucky.

The world is attempting to perfect itself with the illusion of right and wrong. Law is there to try and mold us to be perfect and to live up to the expectations of religious beliefs of what makes a person good.

Law is there to keep order among societies and has little to do with religious beliefs. Nomatter what your religion is, or even if you were an Atheist, you are not above the law, even if you don't agree with it. If you commit a crime, then you are punished for that crime. You know this before you make your choice to do as much. that is your fault, not the government's, society's, or any religion's. It is yours and only yours. After the crime is commited and the punishment put down, It always amazes me how the perpetrator cries the loudest about unfairness.

After seeing this go on for thousands and thousands of years, humans tend to believe whatever they're told about right and wrong. You fall under that categorey, whereas I don't.

If it feels wrong, and looks wrong, then it's probably wrong. This isn't such a hard thing to know. Good feels good, bad feels bad, and right feels right. It's that simple.

That statement originally would make me mad, but I'm looking at it with a light-hearted attitude because it was meant to make me feel inferior, childish, and stupid. In your set of beliefs that may be so - I'm can't agrue with that. But under my beliefs, well, that's a different story. And what are your beliefs but another point of view? Just because many people believe in something (for here, let's say right and wrong) it still does not become the truth. Right and wrong are merely a part of knowledge, which can be changed. Truth is eternal, and right and wrong have nothing to do with it. Reality simply has no moral treatises.

It was never my intentions to make you feel inferior, childish, or stupid. I don't consider you inferior. I think what you did was a childish and stupid act, does that imply inferiority? I think not. And what are my set of beliefs that you seem to know so much about? I am about 30 years your senior, and in that much time, you learn a few things, and frankly in this case I have to disagree with you that right and wrong have little to do with it. You speak of truth but is not truth a part of righteousness? Is not a lie wrong? I fail to see your point with this statement. You may not agree with the law and find it to be harsh or even unfair at times, that doesn't mean you can break it and not pay some price for doing so. If you don't agree with the law then you take legal action to have it changed. I have raised a teenager RE, I know what it's like. I am glad your ordeal is over. I hope you learned something from it.

[Rána Eressëa]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
If it feels wrong, and looks wrong, then it's probably wrong. This isn't such a hard thing to know. Good feels good, bad feels bad, and right feels right. It's that simple.

You can't judge by feelings. Good doesn't feel good for all people, and bad doesn't feel bad for all people. Feelings are the worst way to go by what we should do.

It was never my intentions to make you feel inferior, childish, or stupid. I don't consider you inferior. I think what you did was a childish and stupid act, does that imply inferiority?

Saying you wouldn't treat me as an adult is implying I am a child, and children are considered inferior to adults. So yes.

You speak of truth but is not truth a part of righteousness? Is not a lie wrong?

*sigh* No, actually. Righteousness had nothing to do with truth. Righteousness has to do with right and wrong, once again.

I fail to see your point with this statement. You may not agree with the law and find it to be harsh or even unfair at times, that doesn't mean you can break it and not pay some price for doing so. If you don't agree with the law then you take legal action to have it changed.

I know that when getting caught, you have to pay a price. But I won't agree with it unlesss it's reasonable. Reasonable would have been making me keep the merchandise and having to pay for every cent of it.

I alone could not take action and change the law. It's impossible. Either way, they would go with what the majority of people agree with because it means less conflict for them.

I have raised a teenager RE, I know what it's like. I am glad your ordeal is over. I hope you learned something from it.

Yes, I've learned to wear my glasses at all times. See? --> (J/k)

Like I have said before, in this society it was a mistake. And in this society, there was something to learn from it.

[Sister Golden Hair]

You can't judge by feelings. Good doesn't feel good for all people, and bad doesn't feel bad for all people. Feelings are the worst way to go by what we should do.

If a person can not trust his/her own feelings and intuitions, then how can they even judge the difference between right and wrong to begin with? Feelings are not the worst way to go by what you should do. They act as a beacon to guide you. If you don't draw on them to tell you right from wrong, then how can you ever expect to make resposible choices?

]Saying you wouldn't treat me as an adult is implying I am a child, and children are considered inferior to adults. So yes.

I said that I wouldn't treat you as an adult because of a silly reply you gave to Lizra. Something to the effect of "I never asked to be treated like an adult you meanies." But, here is a fact. You are a child, and I am an adult. That does not imply inferiority. that implies more wisdom maybe. And who said that children are considered inferior to adults. I have never said that or implied that. If you took it that way then you have misunderstood, I would say that you opened yourself up to that remark. Another fact is that the longer you live, the more you learn. We have had this discussion before. You gain more insight as you age and experience things.

*sigh* No, actually. Righteousness had nothing to do with truth. Righteousness has to do with right and wrong, once again.

And once again, is the truth right? Is a lie wrong?

I know that when getting caught, you have to pay a price. But I won't agree with it unlesss it's reasonable. Reasonable would have been making me keep the merchandise and having to pay for every cent of it.

And once again, there would have been no price to pay at all had you not made a bad choice and put yourself in that position.

I alone could not take action and change the law. It's impossible. Either way, they would go with what the majority of people agree with because it means less conflict for them.

You may not be able to do that right now, but many people with a cause have managed to change laws through legislation. Your attitude sounds a bit self-defeating IMO

Like I have said before, in this society it was a mistake. And in this society, there was something to learn from it.

Good, because I'm afraid as long as you live here you have to follow the rules. If you ever leave here, you will have to follow the rules nomatter where you end up, and nomatter how much you don't agree with them.

[jerseydevil]

I agree with Hobbit and Sister Golden Hair.

First of all you stole. What made you think you had a right to the stuff in the first place? It wasn't yours and nothing entitles you to it.

Second - now that you have stolen and gotten caught, you're complaining that they were convicting you and going to have you pay a fine of $150 for $17 worth of stuff. What do you expect - hand the stuff over, cross your fingers - say "I won't do it again" and they'd just accept it? As far as I'm concerned - they sort of let you off easy with what they gave you. I wouldn't have put you in jail or anything - but I think a month or two of community service wouldn't hurt.

The people that ransacked my house and stole my CDs, watches, etc - got put in jail. I'm sorry - I don't feel sorry for people that steal. I feel sorry for the families that have to go through it a lot of times. But if someone does something wrong - whether they agree with the law or not - they have to face up to the consequences.

Also - as SGH said - law has nothing to do with religion. We, as a society, have determined what is right or wrong. You may not agree with what the majority has determined - but in a civilicised society you have to play by the rules. If you don't like it - then you better find yourself a deserted island somewhere to live so you can live under your own moral standards.

Also - anyone that shoplifts and cheats hospitals and insurance companies - that money doesn't get eaten by them. They don't just go - "oh, well we got taken for $10,000 this month or today." They pass it onto the consumer in higher prices. My mother owned a small bookstore in Indiana and I had managed it after she died. I know people stole from us. I never wanted to sit there and watch the customers - but there were many times when I was tempted too.

You are actually one of the people that has caused me to boycott Wal-Mart for 5 years. They treat their customers as criminals and they have all those security cameras around. You're the reason they're there. I don't steal and I have never stolen and when I go into a store I don't expect to be treated as a potential thief. When I walk out of a store I don't expect my bags to always be searched as they were always done at the Wal-Mart in Seymour IN. I wrote a letter to Wal-Mart and and the manager had called me. I haven't bought anything in wal-mart since then. I go to Target.

[webwizard333]

All my respect for you is gone. before: that's an opinion. It may sound childish to most, but I'm not fond of law. If you have a problem with someone, work it out with them - sending in people with guns and handcuffs to catch them is primitive and (now I know this isn't the right word, but it's close enough) unnatural, so to speak.[/QUOTE]
Why don't you go tell that to the policemen trying to stop the gunman down in Maryland? Law is here to protect us from ourselves. You seem to see nothing wrong with your stealing from them, so how could they work anything out with you? Your whole attitude to this situation seems immature, complaining that they made an effort to punish you for stealing. If you don't like it, tough, its not something you're ever going to be able to change.

I go to Target.

All my respect for you is gone.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by webwizard333
All my respect for you is gone.

You'll get over it. At least at target the store is clean, the people are friendly and they don't treat their customers as potential theives. I was at the Wal-mart store last weekend when I was in Indiana - my friends drag me there so I can make fun of it as we walk down aisles. They hate me doing that - but they continue to drag me there. I think they just want to see if they can get me to break my boycott. The parking lot was a mess - there was even a dirty diaper laying on the ground. The store was almost as dirty as the parking lot. At least before it used to be clean.

I do agree with your other comments though. And the Maryland sniper isn't just killing people - he's terrorizing an entire area. People are being killed just trying to get gas, sitting on benches, walking into school. The latest victim was a person from Philadelphia with I think 6 kids.

[Cirdan]

Yeah, the sniper has worked over my neighborhood pretty well. I live in the center of the first days action. The Shell station is a couple of miles from my house. I just keep my eyes peeled and hope that if it comes it's a clean head shot.

I think I saw the van so maybe I'll be raking in that $400K.

[webwizard333]

At least at target the store is clean, the people are friendly and they don't treat their customers as potential theives.

The Target store in my area is a whole lot different. It's a messy store with unfriendly employees, and doors that sound the alarm everytime someone walks through them. And they have really, really bad commercials.

Btw, Rana, you do believe in right and wrong. This entire thread was started by you to complain about the unfairness of Walmart's actions, as if there was something wrong about the actions.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Also RE, you said earlier that you expected to have to pay a price for what you did as long as it was reasonable. Stealing is not a reasonable thing to do, so once you do it, they have the right to set the price that is to be paid. That is the chance you took when you set the events in motion. There is nothing reasonable about breaking the law, and I don't want to come across as though you committed the crime of the century. You are young and when we are young and growing and learning, we sometimes do dumb things, but we learn from it, make restitution, and don't do it again.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Rána Eressëa
[B


The world is attempting to perfect itself with the illusion of right and wrong. Law is there to try and mold us to be perfect and to live up to the expectations of religious beliefs of what makes a person good. After seeing this go on for thousands and thousands of years, humans tend to believe whatever they're told about right and wrong. You fall under that categorey, whereas I don't.

Just because many people believe in something (for here, let's say right and wrong) it still does not become the truth. Right and wrong are merely a part of knowledge, which can be changed. Truth is eternal, and right and wrong have nothing to do with it. Reality simply has no moral treatises.

[/B]

Reading this just makes me think you are a naive ding-dong! So, you have you own world? You might have an interesting "new" view of the world, but (and I guess this is what you learned) , you live in this world. You could write an interesting story or book about your fantasy world, I'm curious as to what fuels your seemingly massive superiority complex.