Mel Gibson's Jesus movie

[Valandil]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
from the way i read the bible story it wasn't anyone's "fault"... it was kind of part of the plan that christ died... if anything he was killed by "mankind"... jc also was a jew technically

That's exactly correct! Blaming Jews for the crucifiction of Christ is wrong-headed... even if the Jewish leaders who called for His crucifiction were indeed in the wrong, they were not merely representing Jews, but they were representing all mankind, who sentenced Christ to death by our sins - in the Christian viewpoint. The wrong that they were doing... God knew that they would do it, and He worked that into His Plan. We could say that they were 'playing into his hands' - but that over-simplifies the case. God was intent on redeeming mankind to Himself, knew how people would react to any given plan - and chose the best.

[Valandil]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
From: Mel Gibson

To: Protestants

Re:"The Passion of the Christ"

Thank you to all the Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc., as well as all the independent churches, for your great work in spreading the word and building up support for this movie.
Not only will it help in making this a financial success, but far more importantly, it will spread the Good News about the Saviour.

Too bad you're all still going to fry in the Fires of Hell for all of Eternity.

Love, Mel.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...eople0212.html

If this is a real interview and Mel Gibson actually believes that way, it's too bad. Fortunately though, neither he, nor the Pope, nor any other Catholic (EDIT: or any Protestant, for that matter), will be sitting on the Seat of Judgement. That seat, and the role that comes with it, have already been reserved.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Valandil
That seat, and the role that comes with it, have already been reserved.

And thank goodness, the One in it is the only one that is completely and entirely fair, and can see completely accurately into every person's heart!

I know I won't be able to see the movie in the theater; I might see it at home when it's released on DVD. I just have a terrible problem with movie gore - LOTR type gore is about as much as I can take. I would probably pass out seeing Gibson's film. But I think it's important to depict that it WAS a terrible thing that Jesus went though, esp. because He was completely innocent of any sin, and ESPECIALLY because he could have called legions of angels to His aid at any time (or just cut out on His own power - remember that story about His mere word knocked down the soldiers, then He let Himself be taken - it was indeed a voluntary goal of His to complete His mission.)

I'll be interested to see the Mooter's reviews here, tho. A friend of mine has already seen it (he's in the movie industry) and said it was great.

And isn't it odd how people can forget that Jesus was a Jew?

Mel may think (incorrectly, IMO) that non-Catholic Christians may "burn in hell", but I'm sure he doesn't desire this fate for them, or anyone else, for that matter, and I think spending mega-millions of his own money for this movie reflects that.

[Insidious Rex]

So then Im guessing I wont be seeing Mad Max: The Final Chapter in my life time then....

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
...ESPECIALLY because he could have called legions of angels to His aid at any time...

That makes me think of that old hymn "Ten Thousand Angels". I like that song.

I will be seeing this movie when it comes out.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by RÃ*an

Mel may think (incorrectly, IMO) that non-Catholic Christians may "burn in hell", but I'm sure he doesn't desire this fate for them, or anyone else, for that matter, and I think spending mega-millions of his own money for this movie reflects that.

I saw some interview with him last night and he said that he didn't think that any particular denomination/creed would go to hell just bc they weren't Christian or Catholic. The Church teaches that other faiths can go to Heaven. I think that's what he was trying to say.

[Finrod Felagund]

If you really want to get technical, the Romans are the ones who actually killed him.

Gibson payed attention to the jews who were getting uptight, and, the hand that drives the nail in, in the film...is Mel's. he's basically saying that he killed Christ.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
If you really want to get technical, the Romans are the ones who actually killed him.

Gibson payed attention to the jews who were getting uptight, and, the hand that drives the nail in, in the film...is Mel's. he's basically saying that he killed Christ.

yeah...the interview I saw showed that clip....I think it's true basically we all killed Christ...I mean He died for all of us.

[Bombadillo]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
If you really want to get technical, the Romans are the ones who actually killed him.

Gibson payed attention to the jews who were getting uptight, and, the hand that drives the nail in, in the film...is Mel's. he's basically saying that he killed Christ.

Yes, but it was primarily the Jewish citizens who condemned him, as Pilot asked the public what to do, and they did demand that he be crusified. Either way, no blame can be placed on modern Jews (or Italians for that matter), and there is no additude in the film expressing that the Jews should be ashamed or anything. That's just what happened, according to the New Testament, and so Mel believes it as a devout Christian. I can't believe that people would be offended by a mere statement of fact.

Another note: We had this debate in my religion class today. At one point, I brought up that the Jews who are scolding Gibson don't know what they're talking about, because they think he fabricated the idea of Jews playing a part in the whole thing, when he actually did find it in the New Testament, which they have no business reading, and therefore no business arguing about. My teacher called me anti-semitic, but I think she's wrong. Can someone tell me if they agree with her?

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
Another note: We had this debate in my religion class today. At one point, I brought up that the Jews who are scolding Gibson don't know what they're talking about, because they think he fabricated the idea of Jews playing a part in the whole thing, when he actually did find it in the New Testament, which they have no business reading, and therefore no business arguing about. My teacher called me anti-semitic, but I think she's wrong. Can someone tell me if they agree with her?

I'd say just watch your word choice. Rather than saying that Jews have no business reading the New Testament, just suggest that Jews can read the New Testament for themselves to see.

[Finrod Felagund]

Well, it appears Mel may get the feminists all in a tizz as well. Satan is portrayed as a woman. She is cloaked and hooded, bald and shaved eyebrows. She doesn't speak but in one scene a snake slithers from under her robe towards Jesus. She is always slinking in the background. I'm sure he doesn't mean it against females though!

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Well, it appears Mel may get the feminists all in a tizz as well. Satan is portrayed as a woman. She is cloaked and hooded, bald and shaved eyebrows. She doesn't speak but in one scene a snake slithers from under her robe towards Jesus. She is always slinking in the background. I'm sure he doesn't mean it against females though!

I saw a preveiw of that....I think he wanted Satan to seem androgenous (sp?)

[Bombadillo]

Mel's dad made a TV appearance, recently, and he's not going to help his son out at all with this argument. He basically said that the Holocaust never happened, and was really and truly anti-semetic. I think he intended to help Mel fend off the accusations, but he just stregnthened them by showing that he was raised in hatred for Jews. What a dumb guy.

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
Well, it appears Mel may get the feminists all in a tizz as well. Satan is portrayed as a woman. She is cloaked and hooded, bald and shaved eyebrows. She doesn't speak but in one scene a snake slithers from under her robe towards Jesus. She is always slinking in the background. I'm sure he doesn't mean it against females though!

Sminty?

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
Yes, but it was primarily the Jewish citizens who condemned him, as Pilot asked the public what to do, and they did demand that he be crusified. Either way, no blame can be placed on modern Jews (or Italians for that matter), and there is no additude in the film expressing that the Jews should be ashamed or anything. That's just what happened, according to the New Testament, and so Mel believes it as a devout Christian. I can't believe that people would be offended by a mere statement of fact.

Another note: We had this debate in my religion class today. At one point, I brought up that the Jews who are scolding Gibson don't know what they're talking about, because they think he fabricated the idea of Jews playing a part in the whole thing, when he actually did find it in the New Testament, which they have no business reading, and therefore no business arguing about. My teacher called me anti-semitic, but I think she's wrong. Can someone tell me if they agree with her?

I absolutely agree here; it WAS the jews, but it doesnt mean that ALL jews are bad becasue of it, or that it is the fault of present-day jews that christ died.

[Rían]

Jesus was in the hands of the Roman authorities who ruled the land (altho only with His own permission, as I said before) - so I would say technically the Romans put Him to death. But the Jewish leaders were certainly bugging the Romans to do this. But there would have been NO death of Jesus except for the fact that everyone sins and is unable to avoid the penalty, and only Jesus could pay it, and did.

Has anyone else heard anything about that the movie will not be shown in France?

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
Yes, but it was primarily the Jewish citizens who condemned him, as Pilot asked the public what to do, and they did demand that he be crusified. Either way, no blame can be placed on modern Jews (or Italians for that matter), and there is no additude in the film expressing that the Jews should be ashamed or anything. That's just what happened, according to the New Testament, and so Mel believes it as a devout Christian. I can't believe that people would be offended by a mere statement of fact.

Another note: We had this debate in my religion class today. At one point, I brought up that the Jews who are scolding Gibson don't know what they're talking about, because they think he fabricated the idea of Jews playing a part in the whole thing, when he actually did find it in the New Testament, which they have no business reading, and therefore no business arguing about. My teacher called me anti-semitic, but I think she's wrong. Can someone tell me if they agree with her?

AFAIK the Jews arguing against this don't think that Mel fabricated this, they think that the early Christians fabricated (or at least exaggerated) it, in order to shift the blame from the Romans to those Jews who had rejected Jesus as the Messiah.
That this is "a mere statement of fact" is one of the points under contention.

As for the Jews having no business arguing about the New Testament, since the New Testament is exactly the basis on which Christians spent a couple of thousand years murdering, massacring, pillaging and raping them, not to mention confining them in ghettos, passing laws discriminating against them, now and then driving them out of their homes and stealing everything they owned, etc. etc., I would think that they certainly do have business reading it.

I mean, you guys are all tolerant now, but there have been periods of toleration before- who knows when the pendulum may swing back, and the Christians once again decide that the Jews are collectively guilty for the death of Jesus. Better be prepared, ne?

[Bombadillo]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
AFAIK the Jews arguing against this don't think that Mel fabricated this, they think that the early Christians fabricated (or at least exaggerated) it, in order to shift the blame from the Romans to those Jews who had rejected Jesus as the Messiah.
That this is "a mere statement of fact" is one of the points under contention.

I guess so, but that would be rather pointless to bring up against a movie. It sounds like their problem is with the entire Christian religion, which I can understand. But then the movie is about Christianity, so they'd of course have some objections to it. I just don't think it's a big deal. I didn't start any riot after watching Prince of Egypt (though that's a poor example; Christians believe in that story too...).

As for the Jews having no business arguing about the New Testament, since the New Testament is exactly the basis on which Christians spent a couple of thousand years murdering, massacring, pillaging and raping them, not to mention confining them in ghettos, passing laws discriminating against them, now and then driving them out of their homes and stealing everything they owned, etc. etc., I would think that they certainly do have business reading it.

I mean, you guys are all tolerant now, but there have been periods of toleration before- who knows when the pendulum may swing back, and the Christians once again decide that the Jews are collectively guilty for the death of Jesus. Better be prepared, ne?

You're right, but that's not really what I meant. I was just saying that the New Testament is obviously not part of the average Jew's library, and so it seemed foolish that they'd argue about stories contained in it, as they are generally uneducated on this particular topic. (But that is NOT to say that Christians are educated in everything!)
Plus most of the issues you mentioned sound much more recent to me, and I'm trying to separate modern Jews from ye olde in ancient Rome.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Bombadillo

You're right, but that's not really what I meant. I was just saying that the New Testament is obviously not part of the average Jew's library, and so it seemed foolish that they'd argue about stories contained in it, as they are generally uneducated on this particular topic. (But that is NOT to say that Christians are educated in everything!)
Plus most of the issues you mentioned sound much more recent to me, and I'm trying to separate modern Jews from ye olde in ancient Rome.

I would think that most Jews are very well educated about the Blood Libel- they've had to be.

[GrayMouser]

Let me expand- I would assume that most Jews neither know nor particularly care about the details of the New Testament; but that they do know and care very much about this particular issue- " the Jews killed Christ" - because of the suffering they have undergone at the hands of Christians based on this point.

A similar case would be Hindus in Northern India- they may not know much about the Koran, but they do know that it calls them idolaters and was used as a justification for invasion and slaughter.

[BeardofPants]

People are all in a tizzy because it has been rated R16 for gratuitous violence. The weird thing is that there are all these christians complaining, because they won't be able to take the kids... say what? *twitch*