Lord Elronds Mistake - Page 3

Lotesse · 10-05-2005, 05:18 PM

Hi, rohirrim TR !- He's (olorin's) just saying that (about sunday school) to be a spiteful brat.

Don't mind him!

You know, I always had that idea about giving Gwaihir the Ring, too - then, he could just drop it into Orodruin, like you said. Ah, well, but then - of course - no story.

Curubethion · 10-05-2005, 09:13 PM

True, although something tells me even Gwahir would have had problems...

***Earniel*** · 10-08-2005, 10:35 AM

The sub-discussion about Eagles has been split off and moved here.

Elanor · 10-08-2005, 06:46 PM

Where do we read about this scene in the books? I can't remember ever reading it-- I thought they just made it up for the movie.

In Movie-verse, I would say that Elrond certainly should have taken the ring from Isildur or forced him to destroy it, but I'm not so sure that he could have. Isildur was pretty tough.

me9996 · 10-10-2005, 09:29 AM

First: Yes they did make it up for the movie.

Second: Elrond would have had the element of suprise on his side.

Third: Elrond was a good fighter too! (did you see him slaying orcs in the battlefield?)

Elanor · 10-12-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me9996

Second: Elrond would have had the element of suprise on his side.

But not after he asked first, which he was respectful enough to do. He certainly wouldn't just push Isildur in the fire and risk estranging elves and men forever. There are political reasons why I think he wouldn't try to forcefully take the ring from Isildur, who was already unreasonable on the subject and might have gone insane if Elrond had tried to take it.

Acalewia · 10-16-2005, 04:16 PM

Elrond was wise enough not to take the Ring from Isildor. I don't know if he knew what would happen to him afterwards or not. I believe the Ring currupted Isildor the moment he picked it up. No one, even the elves, knew the Ring had a mind of its own. And no one could withstand the power of the Ring once the posessed it. Galadriel refused to accept it. Sam gave it back. Aragorn refused to even touch it when Frodo held it out to him. Faramir sent Frodo and Sam on their way once he learned Frodo bore the One Ring. These examples knew what the Ring could do after a few thousand years had passed and they learned what the One could do.

Curubethion · 12-10-2005, 04:31 PM

I don't think Elrond could have destroyed the ring if he had used force. He just would have succumbed to it and become the second Dark Lord.

me9996 · 12-10-2005, 06:03 PM

This is what I have been thinking of all the time I'm on this thread:
(It might help)
------------------------
Elrond:Throw the ring into the fire!
Isildor:NO!
Elrond:All right then...
Isildor:?
(Elrond slices isildor with sword)
Isildor:Unh.
(Isildor bends over from the wound)
Elrond:Good bye mr. Isildor.
(Elrond kicks Isildor into lava)
"Foom!"

Elanor · 12-10-2005, 08:12 PM

Anarion: You killed my brother! I hate elves! Kill all the elves!
Elrond: Why was I so stupid? Aargh! *dies*
Elves and men have a huge war, all elves die, many men die. All men turn evil.

me9996 · 12-10-2005, 08:18 PM

not all the elves die, elrond and others get jobs as agents in the matrix (hahaha)
But you do have a good point, how would elrond explain kicking isildor into a boiling lake of lava

Jon S. · 12-10-2005, 10:53 PM

He "slipped?"

durinsbane2244 · 12-10-2005, 11:25 PM

er, i think he shoulda just knocked isildur out, thrown it in, and i don't think isildur would go insane, Frodo succumbed, but was alright afterwords...

Elanor · 12-11-2005, 12:06 AM

But Isildur might still be angry; he didn't understand that the Ring was evil. Anyway, you still can't blame Elrond; he may have the gift of foresight, but it was a tense moment. He hadn't planned it out beforehand, and he was expecting Isildur to be reasonable, so evidently even he didn't understand the full nature of the Ring.

me9996 · 12-11-2005, 04:53 PM

I've got it! Elrond could chop off isildors hand! (I know, eeeewwwwwwwww)

Lefty Scaevola · 12-11-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordis

Yes it does, that's why I didn't like Olmer's idea too much. But I DO miss him as well, I hope he returns!

You do know that Olmer is Sauron rturning to Earth after many ages? he can not yet take physical form, but his cyber form takes him all over the world. Make sure than your web-cams and mircropohnes are secure against his "Eye" trojan.

durinsbane2244 · 12-11-2005, 09:57 PM

dum dum duuum! hehehe

**Nurvingiel** · 01-04-2006, 10:56 PM

I think Elrond was afraid that if he took the Ring by force, he would then be in a very vulnerable position to succumb to its evil. Rather than risk murder and the rise of another (wannabe) Dark Lord, Elrond preferred to let Isildur keep it in the hope that he would see wisdom and destroy it later.

My impressions of Elrond are mostly from the book, but he did come across as very wise and knowledgeable of the treacherous nature of the Ring in the movie, so I think it still makes sense. (Of course, for those of you who haven't read the books, it's yet another huge, gaping plot hole.)

(So, in the book, Elrond wasn't at the Battle of the Last Alliance?

)

Lady Marion Magdalena · 01-04-2006, 11:46 PM

He was, they do talk about it in the book, somewhere during the counsel I think.

Gordis · 01-05-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty Scaevola

You do know that Olmer is Sauron rturning to Earth after many ages? he can not yet take physical form, but his cyber form takes him all over the world. Make sure than your web-cams and mircropohnes are secure against his "Eye" trojan.

So be it. His faithful nazgul await him

.

10-05-2005, 05:18 PM	#41
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Hi, rohirrim TR !- He's (olorin's) just saying that (about sunday school) to be a spiteful brat. Don't mind him! You know, I always had that idea about giving Gwaihir the Ring, too - then, he could just drop it into Orodruin, like you said. Ah, well, but then - of course - no story. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

10-05-2005, 09:13 PM	#42
Curubethion Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: College! Posts: 1,976	True, although something tells me even Gwahir would have had problems... __________________ Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan)

10-08-2005, 10:35 AM	#43
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	The sub-discussion about Eagles has been split off and moved here. __________________ We are not things.

10-08-2005, 06:46 PM	#44
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	Where do we read about this scene in the books? I can't remember ever reading it-- I thought they just made it up for the movie. In Movie-verse, I would say that Elrond certainly should have taken the ring from Isildur or forced him to destroy it, but I'm not so sure that he could have. Isildur was pretty tough. __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

10-16-2005, 04:16 PM	#47
Acalewia Halfelven Daughter of the Dunedain, President of Entmoot Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In trouble. As usual. Posts: 4,674	Elrond was wise enough not to take the Ring from Isildor. I don't know if he knew what would happen to him afterwards or not. I believe the Ring currupted Isildor the moment he picked it up. No one, even the elves, knew the Ring had a mind of its own. And no one could withstand the power of the Ring once the posessed it. Galadriel refused to accept it. Sam gave it back. Aragorn refused to even touch it when Frodo held it out to him. Faramir sent Frodo and Sam on their way once he learned Frodo bore the One Ring. These examples knew what the Ring could do after a few thousand years had passed and they learned what the One could do. __________________ "Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life!"~ inked Don't meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. "Don't be such a sour wolf" Stiles ~ Heart Monitor http://www.wattpad.com/user/IceQueenofMitera

12-10-2005, 04:31 PM	#48
Curubethion Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: College! Posts: 1,976	I don't think Elrond could have destroyed the ring if he had used force. He just would have succumbed to it and become the second Dark Lord. __________________ Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan)

12-10-2005, 08:12 PM	#50
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	Anarion: You killed my brother! I hate elves! Kill all the elves! Elrond: Why was I so stupid? Aargh! dies Elves and men have a huge war, all elves die, many men die. All men turn evil. __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

12-10-2005, 10:53 PM	#52
Jon S. Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 455	He "slipped?"

12-10-2005, 11:25 PM	#53
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	er, i think he shoulda just knocked isildur out, thrown it in, and i don't think isildur would go insane, Frodo succumbed, but was alright afterwords... __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

12-11-2005, 12:06 AM	#54
Elanor Hobbit in the Music Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Westmarch Posts: 1,111	But Isildur might still be angry; he didn't understand that the Ring was evil. Anyway, you still can't blame Elrond; he may have the gift of foresight, but it was a tense moment. He hadn't planned it out beforehand, and he was expecting Isildur to be reasonable, so evidently even he didn't understand the full nature of the Ring. __________________ Middle Earth Crossword Puzzle on the Tolkien Site of DOOM Segovia Mazes

12-11-2005, 09:57 PM	#57
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	dum dum duuum! hehehe __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

01-04-2006, 11:46 PM	#59
Lady Marion Magdalena Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a Field of Giant Daisies. Posts: 821	He was, they do talk about it in the book, somewhere during the counsel I think. __________________ "Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!"

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