Egypt is the origin of Christianity, Judaism & Islam

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

sorry, just edited it *chuckles at the missed high five*

Well, we'll be disagreeing then won't we? *puts high-five in pocket*

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

Just writing the constenants and not the vowels in names is exactly the way it is written by the egyptians, I sumised it could not be a coincidense, along with the simularities you yourself pointed out.

I definitely don't think you can say that this "could not" be a coincidence. Perhaps one can say there "might" be a connection, but to dogmatically define as binding on the faithful that it is not a coincidence is going way too far, IMO.

That's why I think he studied egypt extensively, which makes sense for a linguist of his nature

No, it doesn't; he was a linguist who was very much enamoured of Northern European languages.

So we have been going round and round without checking out the info and responding to it. I want to know how you feel about the links I posted.

I didn't listen to the sound file, because I do not have that kind of time. I went to the web page, though, and all I saw where a bunch of pictures and largely baseless assertions.

However you have chosen to do so without looking at the evidense, so to me it's like a personal attack. I know my views are different, but seriously if you will not look at the info why bother.

First:
You seem to just automatically assume that no one aside from you is willing to go to your links. As I said, I went to the website, and I saw mainly baseless predication.

Second:
I did not particularly care to call you on this; as you say, this is my perogative. However, as I am fairly familiar with the life of Tolkien, his studies, and his work, I did want to call you on your assertions regarding what he studied.

[Elfhelm]

But I will call him on it. Check out these five incredible facts which prove the ultimate flim flam of western civilization!!!!

1. that the colossal statue of what is known as 'Ramses-2' is in fact an Ancient Egyptian historical representation of the Egyptian Divine Prophet Moses

2. The Great Sphinx is an Ancient Egyptian historical representation of the father of Prophets .. Abraham

3. temple Abu-Simbel is in fact the temple of Moses and Aaron .. known in traditional Egyptology as temple of (ra3-meses) it is one of the world wonders and lies in Egyptian Nubia at nearly 250 km south of Aswan the sun illuminates the sanctuary room twice a year to celebrate the two divine prophets Moses and Aaron Egyptologists say that the Pharaoh Rameses-II established this temple to prove that Egypt invaded Nubia and dominated its land, people and fortunes!! did the divine prophet Moses invade Nubia?!

4. the so-called queen nefertari wife of the so-called ramses-2 is in fact mother of the holy Mary .. and wife of the prophet 3imran and grandmother of the holy Jesus .. they are all Ancient Egyptians!!

5. the so-called god Amun is in fact the eternal divine Prophet of Egypt .. Moses

I am sure these can easily be argued.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

I knew this was a longshot, but felt I could steel one with everyone nowadays having an ipod

I don't.

[BeardofPants]

Ramesses = born of the sun-god Re. THAT is the translation of Ramesses name. R - RE. Thus it is NOT M-s. His nomen is Mry-imn = beloved of Amun (Re). Mry = beloved of; Imn = Amun.

[The Telcontarion]

All I want is for some of you to check the site out and tell me what you think, not totally reject it and then say I would believe anything.

As for the similarities with egyptian writing, it's common sense; you want to tell me that you believe Tolkien came up with the exact method the egyptians used and it not being taken from it directly. Even Tolkiens works should be the most clear proof of that. Names of people and places, myths and religion were all cooperated into tolkiens work eg, Durin was not a name created by Tolkien, that is indeed a dwarvish name from, I believe it was germanic or norse lore, so was narvi. Even the runes were not created by Tolkien, they were adopted. So with that kind of history, I do not believe when you come upon something so unique to these 2 subjects, thaat it is not fair to say that he did infact take that from egypt plain and simple. Frankly you could not possibly argue any different.

And who ever doesn't have the time to listen or read the site, do not. As for Alssadawi, he has published his work. He has debated his contemperaries, and it was one of these debates which lead me to his site. I repeat for the las time ladies/gents, if you do not wish to look, I don't have a gun to your head.

However, I will say this, I know how to research things thoroughly and this I have done. So dismiss me if you will, that is your affair. People are actually posting things like, "I haven't looked at the site, but the bibles says this, so it has to be rediculous." Really you would have done better to just reply and say, if it was your inclination to do so, "I don't have time to read the site." Done. You can't talk about something you haven't investigated. For those who saw useless pictures from the original link to the site, try the link again, it has been changed, in brackets I gave the reason for the change.

At this junction, if you haven't looked at the site I am not going to respond to your replies; this thread is about your response to the links not your personnel opinion about the topic.

[Elfhelm]

Yeah, and the Sphinx was constructed in the 26th century BC. So someone had to have some awesome prophetic powers to make a statue of him 1,000 years before he was born! And I didn't know he looked like a cat?!

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

Yeah, and the Sphinx was constructed in the 26th century BC. So someone had to have some awesome prophetic powers to make a statue of him 1,000 years before he was born! And I didn't know he looked like a cat?!

Ridiculous statement. The sphinx is older than people think and so is the pyramids. If it is the contention that the sphinx is Abraham, then too the time of his birth would be older.

But I will call him on it. Check out these five incredible facts which prove the ultimate flim flam of western civilization!!!!

So now it is the east vs the west is it; now you have fallen into to the trap of the corrupters and have lead us to the real reason why I posted this here. It seems there is rivalry here.

[QUOTE]the ultimate flim flam of western civilization!!!![/QUOTE]

I want you to explain what you mean by this in full!!!!!

[Elfhelm]

But you don't have to explain anything. All you have to do is keep accusing people of not giving you a chance, of being close-minded, etc. Even if your facts... I mean... truths are challenged, you just refuse to support them. The most you have said in defense of this is that you believe it. So why do the rest of us have to explain things.

Look, this guy wants to make it seem like Islam existed before Judaism. Isn't that obvious? The truth is that Islam owes a debt to Judaism. But they hate Israel so much that they want to rewrite history so that it all came from Egypt. And you're buying it.

Well, whatever. There's no arguing with faith-based "truth".

[The Telcontarion]

But you don't have to explain anything. All you have to do is keep accusing people of not giving you a chance, of being close-minded, etc. Even if your facts... I mean... truths are challenged, you just refuse to support them. The most you have said in defense of this is that you believe it. So why do the rest of us have to explain things.

Look, this guy wants to make it seem like Islam existed before Judaism. Isn't that obvious? The truth is that Islam owes a debt to Judaism. But they hate Israel so much that they want to rewrite history so that it all came from Egypt. And you're buying it.

Well, whatever. There's no arguing with faith-based "truth".

This is a hell of a statement.

I don't have to explain anything, I have posted what I believe. I did not accuse everyone of being close minded, just a few and until recently you were not one of them. There were just people winning about the topic. I wanted people to check the site out.

Now, unto the "hatred of jews." I will not say I have not been sold on anything, actually that's why I was insisting on you people going to the site and reading it; maybe then you could pose an arguement that could convince me otherwise than what is stated there.

But hatred of jews and the ultimate flim flam of western civilization!!!! What the flock you gone an do that for. In the past you have said a great deal many things that I have agreed with, but underlying it was always something that was there, covered as it was by shallow water, and as like such things, with little effort can be uncovered.

Pride is a sin and a trap my friend. I see much pride in you. Are you now and everyone that looks like you the defender of western civilization. In valinor do you remember what happened when morgoth started to see his lies starting bear fruit:

"...Melkor saw that lies were smoldering, and that pride and anger were awake among the noldor, he spoke to them concerning weapons; and in the that time the noldor began the smithying of swords and axes and spears. Shields also they made displaying the tokens of many houses and kindred that vied one with another; and these only they wore abroad, and of other weapons they did not speak, for each believed that he alone had recieved the warning. And Feanor made a secret forging, of which not even Melkor was aware; and there he tempered fell swords for himself and for his sons...

Thus with lies and evil whisperings and false counsel Melkor kindled the hearts of the noldor to strife..."

He clearly states on his site that what he speaks of is the origin of all these religions. Egypt was never a islamic state until very recently in it's history, when the arabs invaded and brought it with them. Now controlling cairo itself. This is actually a regretful topic for Alsadawi, especially when he recounts how the native people there were murdered and butchered; the most educated poeple in the world up until just a few hundred years ago.

Just as it was in valinor with the noldor, so too it is here in our world with humanity. There is only us, not jews, christians or islam, not the east vs the west.

So put away your "shield," (your pride), for I say to you my brother...do you not love me?

[The Telcontarion]

Would you not have given anything to see the lies of morgoth come to nat, have the division of the noldor to never have been? To go back in time when they were one and the end of the bliss in aman was not insight.

But I see now that we are not ready, for there are still those who love their pride (their shields) more than the union of our one true house, the human race.

That is what I seek. That is why have started this thread and risked all this adversity, it is a thing dear to me. I hold to hope...I will never give it up!!!!

As Hurin, throwing down his shield, and gripping his axe with both hands, he essayed at his enemies again and again...until darkness came, so too shall I smite here if a may, until my last breath!!!

[Elfhelm]

You do realize that The Silmarillion was fiction, right?

[The Telcontarion]

You do realize that The Silmarillion was fiction, right?

It was a story designed to be applicable to that of humanity; human fears and conditions. That is why it had universal appeal. That is why I used it to illustrate my point; to be sure I could have used the bible, on which Tolkiens writings was heavily based, for the same purpose.

The point here is that of distrust and false pride.

So, I say to you again...do you not love?

[Lotesse]

Someone needs to put down the pookie...

[Elfhelm]

OF COURSE I love! Do you think I would waste time trying to teach you to be more objective if I didn't care?

[The Telcontarion]

I love you too brother. Alas this must continue later or tommorrow, may your tongue never loose it's "objectivity."

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

As for the similarities with egyptian writing, it's common sense; you want to tell me that you believe Tolkien came up with the exact method the egyptians used and it not being taken from it directly.

Absolutely; it's very simple (and not unique to the two), so it's entirely plausible that it's a coincidence. That's like saying "Are you trying to tell me that because Russian and Portuguese BOTH have an "ah" sound, that doesn't prove that one took it DIRECTLY from the other?" Of course. It's common sense.

Even Tolkiens works should be the most clear proof of that.

I disagree, it certainly isn't proof. This is argument from example, NOT a proof. This is like saying: "The Norse were a nation; they lived in Northern Europe. The English were a nation; they lived in Northern Europe. The Egyptians were a nation; therefore, they lived in northern Europe."

Names of people and places, myths and religion were all cooperated into tolkiens work eg, Durin was not a name created by Tolkien, that is indeed a dwarvish name from, I believe it was germanic or norse lore, so was narvi.

You are correct; all of the Dwarf-names in fact (as well as Gandalf) are from Nordic myth.

Even the runes were not created by Tolkien, they were adopted.

Correct, from ancient runes used in England. Notice the pattern here, of borrowing from northern European myth, with a noted lack of borrowing from Middle-eastern?

So with that kind of history, I do not believe when you come upon something so unique to these 2 subjects, thaat it is not fair to say that he did infact take that from egypt plain and simple.

It's fair to say "maybe" or even "I think", but to say that this is absolute fact is definitely not fair.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

It was a story designed to be applicable to that of humanity; human fears and conditions.

It was not; it was simply a story. If it was "designed to be" anything that is a mythology for the English people, but even that fell out of the boat along the way.

That is why it had universal appeal.

It did not. The Lords of the Rings, perhaps, but the Silmarillion is still relatively un-read.

The point here is that of distrust and false pride.

What, pray tell, is false pride? Define your term, please. Pride I know, and false humility...but false pride is entirely new to me.

[The Telcontarion]

To Gwaimir Windgem

Actually I believe that I saw these references about his extensive study of history, I can't remember where as I have read many articles and essays.

As for your points, frankly, they are quite immature and ridiculous. Comparing Tolkiens invented language with russian and portiguess, languages evolved in the real world to a language, that is incomplete mind, that evolved in a fictitious world?

It's fair to say "maybe" or even "I think", but to say that this is absolute fact is definitely not fair.

I said I "surmised" that it was gleaned from egyptian written form not that it was a fact. Though I do believe it is, if I can find the reference.

What, pray tell, is false pride? Define your term, please. Pride I know, and false humility...but false pride is entirely new to me.

Seriously if you are smart enough to post on this site you are smart enough to find out what false pride means. If I used the word tor'sion, would you ask me the meaning or would you...

Fill in the blank, OK!!!

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion
It was a story designed to be applicable to that of humanity; human fears and conditions.

Gwaimir Windgem
It was not; it was simply a story. If it was "designed to be" anything that is a mythology for the English people, but even that fell out of the boat along the way.

My friend it is a fact OK, see link below and try to do some research so you actually know what you are talking about:

http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?t=13258

What I want to know is what is your point here, and how does this relate to the thread. I made those statements in explaining other more relivant points to the issue at hand. Yet you have latched on to this and are hanging for dear life, with your teeth.

I want you to tell me what is your point...what exactly do you think is my motivation here, and what are you trying to say in regards to that.

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

First of all, Nefertitti is not an egyptian name, her real name was in fact maryam; the mother of Mary mother of jesus. Mary even today is a common egytian name. Google "virgin and child" then "Isis and Horus," go images and you will see an instant connection.

I should know better, but eh.

Firstly, that IS nefertiti's name. Transliteration of her full name FROM EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHICS is : nfr.t-iitj 'the beauty (beautiful one) which (who) has come'. She never went by the name of Maryam. Ever. Period Polka dot. She was married to Amenhotep the IV, who later became Akhenaten, the pharaoh who put forward Aten as the sole god of creation.

The site that you have put up talks about NEFERTARI, not Nefertiti as being the 'mother' of God. The transliteration of her full name FROM EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHICS is : nfri-try mryt n mwt, which translates to 'The lovely one, beloved of Mut (Mother/Cosmic Waters - deification).

YOUR 'FACTS' ARE COMPLETELY FULL OF BUNK. Why don't you actually try verify some of this stuff first before trolling, and wasting our time?

<edit> Your 'Maryam' most likely is sourced from Ramesses II's nomen name as I posted above - beloved of Amun, mryimn.