01-06-2004, 05:11 PM | #21 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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01-06-2004, 05:13 PM | #22 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
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I rather doubt it. While they yet prosecuted the war on Morgoth, the Oathtakers made no attempt to seize the Silmaril from Thingol beyond 'proud and threatening words. Nor would they have the power to do so, either form Doriath or Nargothrond (even given your unfounded assupmtion that the Beren Luthian and the Silmaril would dwell there). No allies from the Union of Maedhros would march with them against either Kingdom, and until Doriath was otherwise destroyed (and the Girdel gone), as in the narative, they would have a hard time deploying what forces they had to West Beleriand. Try marching, with inferior forces past a cranky Thingol who had his magic barrier to protect his forces and mask his movements, as well as much superior numbers (but less sell armed and amored). Nargothrond was itself well fortified, almost certainly since the Brogollach had supirior numbers to the Oathtakers who were badly hurt in that battle and driven off their lands. It has Nolderin warriors, arm, and armor, and was allied to the Sindar in west Beleriand. The Oathtatker would lose there either before or after the Nirnaeth. They we preety much limited to to dealing with the leftovers after someone else had smash either Doriath or Nargothrond.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
01-06-2004, 08:17 PM | #23 | |
The Tall
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Notice that I didn't say an attack on Nargothrond rather an attack on their forces, which wouldn't have done any good have they stayed in Nargothrond. It's funny, all this stuff and zero ideas as to how the might of Nargothrond would have helped Beren and Lúthien gain a Silmaril.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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01-06-2004, 10:28 PM | #24 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
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except this:
"Finrod would not comtemplate an insane assualt on Amgband, nor is there any suggestion that he would, but the forces of his Kingdom would have been very useful to take back the Minas Tirith and the pass of Sirion, thus allowing a safe passage of a covert expedition of Beren, Luthian, and support toward Angband, similat to the one they did use, but stronger, less risky, and better supported."
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
01-07-2004, 04:08 AM | #25 | ||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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01-07-2004, 11:33 AM | #26 | |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
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Perhaps, one can utilize the similitude found in the rebellion of the Ñoldor in this case.
It was the best possible thing for ME for the Ñoldor to revolt and go fight Melkor. Morgoth's Ring: Myths Transformed Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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12-20-2004, 02:09 PM | #27 | ||
avocatus diaboli
Join Date: Nov 2004
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*bump*
Just a couple of comments. Actually, I think Maedhros might have a point. It seems to me that Finrod was planning some sort of crazy assault on Angband. From the Grey Annals: Quote:
Though, as horrible as it sounds, I don’t see how it could have been worse for Nargothrond if the host had been lost. After all, the fighting host and the entire population are two different things. Gwindor never would have brought any force to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, which would have probably been better… Turin’s stay in Nargothrond would have been much different also, and I can’t see that story playing out in the same manner. Quote:
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
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12-20-2004, 02:45 PM | #28 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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12-23-2004, 04:04 PM | #29 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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I, too, think that a woodsman like Beren would have found it easy enough to evade the sons of Fëanor, even if they had known of the success of his quest and conducted a search for them. It is hard to imagine that the defeat of the army of Nargothond would have been nearly as bad as what Glaurung did to them, and it never would have happened if Finrod had still been King, because he was wise enough not to listen to Turin. Dumb butt. Be that as it may, I literally cannot imagine any situation where the presence of Celegorm or Curufin would have made matters better, except at their hangings.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
01-25-2005, 03:36 PM | #30 | |
avocatus diaboli
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Could you imagine Celegorm as King of Nargothrond? Orodreth was hardly a model alternative, but at least he wasn't eagerly seeking war against Doriath... And Thingol was about ready to make war on a Feanorian Nargothrond too... Good thing Celegorm and Curufin got kicked out, I say, before they managed to make matters even worse...
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
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01-25-2005, 04:18 PM | #31 | |
Honourary Elitist Inklette
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01-25-2005, 04:23 PM | #32 | |
avocatus diaboli
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~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~
Neil Gaiman |
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01-25-2005, 04:27 PM | #33 | |
Honourary Elitist Inklette
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