subtitles or lack thereof?

[Laurelyn]

Originally posted by Ohtar
Does anyone else got annoyed with the PJ phrase, which he's clearly invented, Gondorians!

The one that gets to me is "rohans." Gah! Rohirrim! But doesn't that belong in another thread?

The first time I saw it, there were no subtitles, and I couldn't hear the Elvish because halfway through the scene the person next to me leaned over and said, loudly, "What did he say?"
By the time I could hear, all I caught was, "Estel anin," and it wasn't enough to remind me of Gilraen.
The second time I saw it, there were subtitles, but by that point I'd already found out from Entmoot, from people who heard/ had subtitles, what was said.

Do the subtitles really say " . . . . to the world? Shouldn't it be "to men?" Among other nitpicky details . . . I don't remember exactly what the subtitles said, though.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Laurelyn
Do the subtitles really say " . . . . to the world? Shouldn't it be "to men?" Among other nitpicky details . . . I don't remember exactly what the subtitles said, though.

It does say "men". The 3 times I saw it the subtitles have said "men" and never world...

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Ohtar
Does anyone else got annoyed with the PJ phrase, which he's clearly invented, Gondorians! I know a lot of people have been using this phrase on the message boards but to me it's extremely annoying!!!!!!!!! I note that a lot of people on the LOTR production teams used it as well during the commentaries and narratives. I would have preferred Southern Dunedain or people of Gondor etc. or even Gondorhirrim - Gondorians is like, to me in any case, a horrible perversion and an intrusion into Middle Earth authenticity..... what do others think?

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The term "Gondorians" was and has been used before the Movies even came out. I am not sure if I've seen it used by Tolkien, but I've only read LoTR, The Sil, The Hobbit and UT at this point (making my way through HoME right now ). Anyway, I say this, because I've seen it used years before the movies came out. In fact, Michael Martinez, a guy who knows more about Tolkien's works than 99.9% of everyone uses the term "Gondorians" in one of his articles that was dated 1 1/2 years before Fellowship came out at the end of 2001. I am sure he has used it in a number of other articles as well, and I am sure he uses that term for good reason, not because he made it up. Clearly that proves PJ didn't "invent" that term. Either way, if Michael Martinez uses that term, I feel pretty confident in it being valid...

[Dúnedain]

HA! I just found a quote by Tolkien himself where he used the word "Gondorians". This is him talking about the sequel he started to Lord of the Rings, but ended it after about 10 pages:

"I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the downfall of Sauron, but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace and justice and prosperity would become discontented and restless - while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors - like Denethor or worse. I found that even so there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret Satanistic religion; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller' about the plot and its discovery and overthrow - but it would be just that. Not worth doing."

[Ohtar]

I love your tactful and adult way of putting things "you clearly have no idea what you're talking about...". Are you thinking about having a career in diplomacy? I've read all of Tolkien's works (several, several, several times) and associated writings extensively for the last 15/16 years. Also a very active member of the Tolkien Society in the UK..so..... I guess a know somethings.. The point I was trying to make, which seems to have got your ire, is that I don't believe Jackson et al. actually referenced Tolkien when they came up with Gondorians and Rohans I think it was there own mutation and I THINK it cames across as distateful and out of context. I don't believe Tolken, in prose, would have coined such a phrase - sure he discussed it in conjecture when he spoke about "Return of the Shadow". I was MERELY canvassing peoples views on it, not trying to get peoples goad. So I guess what I'm saying is, make your point or by all means disagree but try to be mature in doing it and don't cause unnecessary offense (which you did) in a forum of friends or mutual admirers of this great work.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Ohtar
I love your tactful and adult way of putting things "you clearly have no idea what you're talking about...". Are you thinking about having a career in diplomacy? I've read all of Tolkien's works (several, several, several times) and associated writings extensively for the last 15/16 years. Also a very active member of the Tolkien Society in the UK..so..... I guess a know somethings.. The point I was trying to make, which seems to have got your ire, is that I don't believe Jackson et al. actually referenced Tolkien when they came up with Gondorians and Rohans I think it was there own mutation and I THINK it cames across as distateful and out of context. I don't believe Tolken, in prose, would have coined such a phrase - sure he discussed it in conjecture when he spoke about "Return of the Shadow". I was MERELY canvassing peoples views on it, not trying to get peoples goad. So I guess what I'm saying is, make your point or by all means disagree but try to be mature in doing it and don't cause unnecessary offense (which you did) in a forum of friends or mutual admirers of this great work.

Well what I said is true. You are bashing PJ about something he didn't make up. Tolkien himself speaks of that word and it is documented. Therefore your whole theory is debased...

[Ohtar]

Erm.. invalid... how can I be debasing my own theory (actually it was an opinion!) when I freely admit to speculating about some of the factors that go into it? Note use of "I THINK" etc. etc. If you want to continue this thread, shall we go onto a cod-philosophy talker and discuss?

[Nurvingiel]

So are you guys saying that in some theatrical showings, there were no subtitles for the elvish parts? The only time I missed a subtitle was in RotK when Eowyn gives a (welcome?) cup to Aragorn to drink. She says something in Rohirric (?), like Aragorn Westu-hal, but it is not subtitled. Perhaps Jackson never meant to have a subtitle there anyway.
It seems odd that it would be inconsistent elsewhere.