Muslims

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Valandil
I agree that this clothing shouldn't keep them from a job.

We had a twist on this in Florida which I found sort of humorous though. A Muslim woman wanted to be able to get a driver's license - and have her face covered in the photo. Personally, I don't think she should be allowed to do that - driving is a privilege, not a right - and part of that, in our country, is that the driver be able to be clearly identified from their DL. It went round-and-round, I don't recall how it came out (any Floridians here know?).

It came down to - if she wanted to get her license - she had to abide by the laws of the US. We have religious tolerance - but we need to have photo ids - anyone can be covered and then who are we supposed to know who they are. As you said - a license is a priveldge - not a right. In Saudi Arabia - as I said - she wouldn't even be able to drive because she's a woman.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Valandil
We had a twist on this in Florida which I found sort of humorous though. A Muslim woman wanted to be able to get a driver's license - and have her face covered in the photo. Personally, I don't think she should be allowed to do that - driving is a privilege, not a right - and part of that, in our country, is that the driver be able to be clearly identified from their DL. It went round-and-round, I don't recall how it came out (any Floridians here know?).

That was funny! A good example on how 'foreign' religious and cultural issues may collide with the law. But I agree that she should follow the law and be identified on the photo.

[The Gaffer]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
That is only partially true in my opinion. From what I have seen and heard - they are giving too much lip service and have for years. They have started cracking down on terrorist elements lately - but that is only because the US govenrment has been pushing them. They also know that less than 50% of the US population trusts them right now.

I agree that the Saudi government is morally bankrupt. What's also morally bankrupt is that the West have been quite happy to support them (sell them arms, etc) as long as it suited. This "pressure" is VERY recent (long after 9/11).

In spite of all the acknowledgements that we don't want to generalise about this group, we go ahead and do it anyway. It's understandable to fear an unknown group, but we must be really conscious of this irrational fear and guard against it.

The comments people have made about personal contact they've had with Muslims shows that the way forward is to break down barriers, not reinforce them.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
I agree that the Saudi government is morally bankrupt. What's also morally bankrupt is that the West have been quite happy to support them (sell them arms, etc) as long as it suited. This "pressure" is VERY recent (long after 9/11).

In spite of all the acknowledgements that we don't want to generalise about this group, we go ahead and do it anyway. It's understandable to fear an unknown group, but we must be really conscious of this irrational fear and guard against it.

The comments people have made about personal contact they've had with Muslims shows that the way forward is to break down barriers, not reinforce them.

I think for what has happened in the middle east and on 9/11 - teh US has been MORE than understandable and accepting. The Middle East is far less understanding of our way of life. The fanatical clerics preach hatred. In London there is a muslim group who is posting flyers all over the place praising the 19 9/11 hijackers 0 which to me is sick. We don't have parades in the street when innocent people are killed. That goes on repeatedly in the middle east.

[The Gaffer]

My point was that our (Western) support for the Saudi government has been entirely expedient and materialistic.

Again, we're getting mixed up:
- Saudi government
- people who support 9/11 terrorists
- muslims

These are DIFFERENT from one another, just as Hitler was from Einstein, or George Bush from Jacques Chirac.

[Sween]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I think for what has happened in the middle east and on 9/11 - teh US has been MORE than understandable and accepting. The Middle East is far less understanding of our way of life. The fanatical clerics preach hatred. In London there is a muslim group who is posting flyers all over the place praising the 19 9/11 hijackers 0 which to me is sick. We don't have parades in the street when innocent people are killed. That goes on repeatedly in the middle east.

Yes but is'nt a part of been the stronger country been above all of that? We shouldnt rise to hatred. I dont know what the situation is in the US but over here in England imigration is a huge problem and will soon be leading to massive problems we have allready had a few riots!

I know in America you have a big problem with Mexicans entering the country but here we have a lot of Asians trying to gain access to this country.

Now what the main issue i think with Muslim in particualr entering this country is that they like to stick together. Bradford for example is an allmost completly Asian town now!

I live in cumbria again and from people i come into contact with i am seeing a lot of hate and racism (they all smell of curry etc) people say 'muslim' and they seem to think dirty paki and trouble maker. Now the west cumbrians are an inbread bunch at the best of times but i see this all over the country i think its worrying!

The news has also started running a lot of what i would say 'arnt muslims a bit backward stories'! For example they were running an honor killing stroty roight where a muslim man had married his cousin on the day of her wedding because the man she was marring was not a blood realtive'!

Forget 9/11 etc are muslims getting dragged down by a combination of some people in there religions actions and the media?

[azalea]

I'm sorry to post slightly off topic, but had to comment on the "right to wear what you want to work." That really gets into the area of the right of a private company to enforce a dress code (of course government jobs would be different, they must allow it unless it physically interferes with the duties involved). But should a private company be forced to allow someone to wear something that the company doesn't want them to? To me, that is taking away freedom of one in favor of another.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Sween
Yes but is'nt a part of been the stronger country been above all of that? We shouldnt rise to hatred. I dont know what the situation is in the US but over here in England imigration is a huge problem and will soon be leading to massive problems we have allready had a few riots!

I know in America you have a big problem with Mexicans entering the country but here we have a lot of Asians trying to gain access to this country.

We have a "problem" with mexicans coming in - but I don't think it is anything serious. We don't have riots or anything like that. I am against illegals entering the country - no matter where they are from and I don't think they should get free health care, education, etc. Gray Davis even just passed the law that allows illegal immigrants to get California licenses. :rolleys: What is the point of have immigration laws if they're not going to be enforced.

Now what the main issue i think with Muslim in particualr entering this country is that they like to stick together. Bradford for example is an allmost completly Asian town now!

I live in cumbria again and from people i come into contact with i am seeing a lot of hate and racism (they all smell of curry etc) people say 'muslim' and they seem to think dirty paki and trouble maker. Now the west cumbrians are an inbread bunch at the best of times but i see this all over the country i think its worrying!

The thing is - new arrivals always stick together - then after a generation - they become part of the fabric of the new country. At least that's the way it is in the US. Plainsboro - has is a patchword of people from all over the country. I walk into the grocery store and I hear all different languages and I don't live in a city. You look at hte people in the park and you have muslim, indian, blacks, whites, asians - all playing together.

On 4th of July I was at Liberty State Park - there was this black boy trying to fly a kite. A middle eastern person came over to him to help him out and then a white guy came over to help them. These were complete strangers there to watch NJ's fireworks to celebrate America's 4th of July. That is what America is about and it made me glad that people are really like that here.

Now in the midwest - things are different. I worked with someone who is black and we are friends. She nolongeer works where we used to work and I asked her why. She said she got tired of the death threats and stuff. I asked her why death threats - she said for being a black woman. I told her - "oh yeah - I forgot - you live in the 50's here". She said - "the early 50's". But that still goes on in the midwest. People there complain about the Mexican's coming in - but they had no problem when Aisan built a huge plant there - then they went out of their way to welcome the Japanese. They even offered japanese language lessons and stuff - if you see the movie Gung Ho you'd know exactly what Seymour Indiana is like and how they reacted when Aisan moved in.

The news has also started running a lot of what i would say 'arnt muslims a bit backward stories'! For example they were running an honor killing stroty roight where a muslim man had married his cousin on the day of her wedding because the man she was marring was not a blood realtive'!

We don't have a lot of negative reporting - because we also have positive stories about muslims on the news. I don't think they're going out of there way to show either one here - it's just the news.

Forget 9/11 etc are muslims getting dragged down by a combination of some people in there religions actions and the media?

I can only speak for NJ and the NY area when I say I don't see it. This area is so diversified that people don't look at the differences really. Now in southern New Jersey - there is a little more prejudice - members of my own family are in some respects and it disgusts me.

[Valandil]

If a person dresses a particular way for religious reasons - and it doesn't interfere with their work - and is appropriately modest (and perhaps I'd add another caveat or two if I spent more time thinking them up) it seems reasonable to me that employers should be accommodating.

Hey - I think I just made "Enting"!! I've been "made"!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by azalea
I'm sorry to post slightly off topic, but had to comment on the "right to wear what you want to work." That really gets into the area of the right of a private company to enforce a dress code (of course government jobs would be different, they must allow it unless it physically interferes with the duties involved). But should a private company be forced to allow someone to wear something that the company doesn't want them to? To me, that is taking away freedom of one in favor of another.

true - there can be limits in certain environments - I don't think a police women could wear a hajib. In an office environment - a head scarve is fine - even a hajib should not matter. As long as it doesn't interfere with everyday work environment or the ability of the person to do their job. I view it as no different than a Jewish person wearing a Kipot.

Note Jonathan: This is my 5000th post.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Valandil
Hey - I think I just made "Enting"!! I've been "made"!

Hey, congrats!

And great story about the Florida drivers' license!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by The Gaffer
My point was that our (Western) support for the Saudi government has been entirely expedient and materialistic.

Again, we're getting mixed up:
- Saudi government
- people who support 9/11 terrorists
- muslims

These are DIFFERENT from one another, just as Hitler was from Einstein, or George Bush from Jacques Chirac.

I'm not getting mixed up when MEMBERS of the royal family have given money to terrorist groups. If a member of the royal family of Great Britain was giving known terrorists money and supporting terrorists acts and the the Queen as well as parliament knowingly didn't take action - that is just as bad as doing it themselves and supporting it. The only reason the Saudi government has taken any action against terrorist groups is because the US government has put extreme pressure on them.

[Khamûl]

To be perfectly honest, I don't think I know any Muslims. And I don't know where any mosques are, so I haven't had any personal experiences with the religion of Islam.

Edit: this is my 2000th post. Go me.

[Bombadillo]

Originally posted by Sween
Now the comments made on other threads worried me because they showed that people seem to think all Muslims were the same which is simply not true. I have allways been dead set against the way we let Sinn Fainn and other such partys get elected to government in this country as they have there own terrorist agendas!

Ah! It was just a poor-taste joke, with a jokingly winking smiley. I had an actively Muslim friend once (before he moved out of state) whose name was Samir. I picked on him a bit but no 'racial slur' I might pop out with should be taken seriously or personally.

Sorry everyone, especcially Muslims.
---- ----
Concerning /actual/ discrimination towards Muslims, I know it's a problem. On 9/11, a man drove his car into a gas station about 7 blocks from my house and asked the attendant (who had dark skin and a slight beard) "Are you Muslim." When he replied "no," the guy said, "Good, because if you were, I would have stabbed you." And he showed him the knife. My friend's dad owns that gas station too, so this was a good guy.
But, I also heard about a small celebration party that some Muslims held in my town as news of the Twin Towers collapse was being televised. I'm not sure if this is true or not; it sounds like an easy rumor to me.
But the fact is everyone definately /is/ different, and they all think and operate individually so no one should seriously judge a race or religion. Besides, that's the attitude involved with Al Quida: that all Americans are the same and the suck and should die.
---- ----
Again, I'm truly sorry to have offended anyone.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
Ah! It was just a poor-taste joke, with a jokingly winking smiley. I had an actively Muslim friend once (before he moved out of state) whose name was Samir. I picked on him a bit but no 'racial slur' I might pop out with should be taken seriously or personally.

Sorry everyone, especcially Muslims.

Well I didn't think what you said was racially motivated and I had seen that you had a smilie on it. I didn't take it seriously. I joke around with my friend Trish all the time who lives on Six Nations Indian Reserve. If we get too much rain I ask her they can stop dancing up there and stuff. We joke back and forth - I'm sure other people listening in would think that it was racist. I also made mention of my friend Grace who I worked with above - I used to joke with her that she filled the quota for two people at RR Donnelley - as a black woman. She knew I was joking and as far as I was concerned she was the only one that mattered.

[The last sane person]

May a 'middle easterner' get a word in here, if its not to much to ask? First of all, I am an Iranian born and raised girl. I lived in Canada, then the US (and i am very proud of my people and my country). I have been watching this thing grow and i have just been thinking about it and waiting for a time to respond. I think now is fine.

The whole "middle east" is still a HUGE thing to be calling a problem affected area. Same with "Muslims", there are 1.4 billion of them on this world. The ones in south east asia have nothin to do with those in Tajikestan or Kabul. they have totally different values. But given they do have some of the same common ground.

Hell, even those musilms in the "middle east" have different customs and beliefs. For example lets take a look at Iraq, a small country relativley speaking, in the middle east. I can name about 4 different sub groups off the top of my head.

We have the Sunni branch of Islam, We have the Shi'te branch of Islam. Those are the mainstream, then we have the the orthodox sects of those two branches. All of them have different beleifs that share only some things in common. Now, lets talk about who practices those Sub-religions, you have the Kurds in Northern Iraq, who practice their own style of Sh'ite-ism then you have the Arabs who are mostly Sunni but a few that are Shi'te.

Now, lets take a close look at how the factions relate to each other. The Shi'te and the Sunni HATE each other as Shi'te is considered to be a broken off and traitorus to Islam on the count of its founder Imam Ali*. Then the Arabs Hate the Kurds. A closeer look at the Kurds. Not only do they have a little blood fued with the Arabs but they have their own little internal struggle between the Shi'te and Sunni!!

Christ! all of that struggle going on in this dinky, war torn little place! How can you say that they all would like to see us dead? Many of them have their own problems to deal with.

"And as for I think for what has happened in the middle east and on 9/11 - teh US has been MORE than understandable and accepting. The Middle East is far less understanding of our way of life. The fanatical clerics preach hatred. In London there is a muslim group who is posting flyers all over the place praising the 19 9/11 hijackers 0 which to me is sick. We don't have parades in the street when innocent people are killed. That goes on repeatedly in the middle east."

That is also a very rare faction too, and i can think of when the Ku Klux Klan marched on washington too in response. Were they the mainstream americans? did every one share their beleifs?

And as for:

"The 1993 Twin Towers bombing was organized in Jersey City. I am dreading the moment when they start bombing our grocery stores and our movie theaters and restaurants. Maybe it won't happen - but I think eventually it will - unless a change is made in their attitude toward other people and races."

What about the Iran-Iraq war? Do you know what it is really like to have your house, family, neighborhood, country BOMBED WITH CHEMICAL WEAPONS AND MISSLES FOR EIGHT YEARS AND HAVE MILLIONS OF YOUR COUNTRYMEN AND FAMILY MEMBERS DIE?? I pray to god that you will never, ever have to witness that evil, horrid type of thing. I would never wish that on you or anyone else. And you say you are scared after one day? Then i have every righ to fear USA, RUSSIA, BRITAIN, FRANCE AND A WHOLE SLEW OF OTHERS for giving the Iraqi regime those weapons and the support to kill my countrymen.

But you might say "ah, but those weapons were meant to stop the radical regime in your country." well, after all that they are still there. doesnt seem to have accompished much now does it? Save killing a whole bunch of innocent people trying to save the LAND they love, not the Bastards sitting in power. And setting up a fanatical fruit cake that will cause his own people and others MUCH grief.

And as for the House of the Saud...what can i say? Sh*t floats. i have an interesting arcticle in the Atlantic Monthly about it here in the may 2003 issue. it isnt avalible online but you could buy and read it..its very interesting to say the least.

*WHEW!*

ANd on some things i agree, like the whole photo Id thing. That was just plain funny. And by the way, the verdict came out against the woman, she had to take it off if she wanted her drivers license...

*(I forget his rightful title that is what most people call him, although he was an Imam as well, he grew in rank because he married Muhammed's first daughter to forge political ties between the two families.)

[jerseydevil]

Well it's good to find out that we have a Middle Eastern person here. Maybe you can bring another side to the discussion.

Originally posted by The last sane person
That is also a very rare faction too, and i can think of when the Ku Klux Klan marched on washington too in response. Were they the mainstream americans? did every one share their beleifs?

Well i didn't say they were the norm. But you don't see americans dancing in the street when innocent people die. I'm sorry - but you repeatly see people in the Middle East cheering an innocent people's death. Many palestinians come out and cheer when there are bombings in Isreal and as well as on 9/11. It is the same in many other Middle Eastern countries. To me that is barbaric. People may be able to justify calling suicide bombers martyrs - but I can't. They aren't killing military people - they are killing innocent people having lunch, eating dinner, waiting for the bus, etc. They are purposely targeting men, women and children.

What about the Iran-Iraq war? Do you know what it is really like to have your house, family, neighborhood, country BOMBED WITH CHEMICAL WEAPONS AND MISSLES FOR EIGHT YEARS AND HAVE MILLIONS OF YOUR COUNTRYMEN AND FAMILY MEMBERS DIE?? I pray top god tha you will never, ever have to witness that evil, horrid type of thing. I would never wish that on you or anyone else. And you say you are scared after one day? Then i have every righ to fear USA, RUSSIA, BRITAIN, FRANCE AND A WHOLE SLEW OF OTHERS for giving the Iraqi regime those weapons and the support to kill my countrymen.

Where do you live if you fear those countries you mentioned? I thought you said you lived in Canada and then the US. If that is true then you must not really fear our countries and must prefer our countries more than Iran. For what reason did you leave Iran? (I'm just asking - not being snide). You may say you have more to fear of the US - but I will NOT go to the Middle East until something changes there and I would love to see the Middle East.

As for the war between Iran and Iraq that is true - we did support Iraq - but Iran was getting it's support from the Soviet Union. Techinically the US was supplying both sides - Iran AND Iraq - becuase we did not want one side getting the upper hand over the other. If either side won, it would have destabilized the region . Granted it it wasn't the most humanitarian thing to do - but can you tell me how many humanitarian things the governments of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon and other countries in the region have done? Have they reached out to other faiths and races like the western world has? Are they accepting of our rights and beliefs there?

My brother was stationed in Bahrain - and he did say they were very nice and he did enjoy Bahrain. He was there during 9/11.

[The last sane person]

I know you werent being snide. I left as not to be blown up by a missle. Unfortunaltly the rest of my family (exculding my mother father and brothers) are still there and are right now terrified of having the same thing happen all over again this time with the US.

And it is a perfectly legit fear as such the US is right next door. As for the fear, that means i have very legit reasons too, but i dont live in fear that they who have the power to hurt me will not, because, the country i live in now has the power to strick back, hard. But, if i lived back home, and couldnt get away from imminent hostilities i would be pretty damn scared right now since they have no way to strike back if they are attacked.

You should have no fear of the average shmuk walking down the street who has darker skin than you. And if they were all bent on killing you, you would have been dead by now. So now worries there. If a guy wanted to blow up the seven elven he wouldnt walz in there, buy a coke then leave.

No- you dont see Americans dancing in the street, you see them glued to the TV set and cheering when the bombs fell on Iraq. ( I was witness to that seen myself in a local pub). As for the palestinians....Well, that is a different cake altogether. Since they have no military-or real weapons- to take on anything, they go with the only opption they have. To strap a home made bomb and kill themselves along with the Isrealites.

but you said you dont understand why they do that... take a look at the average Palestinian situation, they are poor, treated as second class citizens, live in poverty and fear that Israeli bulldozer is going to come and tear down their home, mosque, village and put up a settlement. They fear the Soldiers with their American issued gear coming in and killing their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters and loved ones.

They have no voice, and when they do speak they are overshadowed by "the terrorist threat" and the jewish state that wishes to expand and in essence boot them out and claim it all for themselves. As such when they see those that are around them die and they themselves reduced to sub par living in a place that doesnt recognize them, why bother living?

Why let those that kill your women and children, disgrace your religion and integraty as a human get away scott free with your land and life blood? I would, should i ever be reduced to such a state (God forbid!) would as such do as that Palestinian lawyer did. Strap a bomb on me, plant myself next to my aggressor and blow myself sky high. And arent the children in that "refugee" camp that the Israeli army pumped missles into, innocent too? what about them? If that isnt true as Israel claims, then why has Israel Point blank refused Nato to come and investigate the area?

A buncha nutcases that commited that evil act on 9/11 caused this country to unite and then call for arms against a common enemy, cant that too be applied? or is just unacceptable because they dont have the means to go about it without all the high tech gadgetry and their own flag?

As for the changes, what do you mean? go to Iran and you will see that it really isnt as horrid as it has been portrayed. you can walk safely at nights on the street, very much so infact, talk with the people and have a nice time at the little cafes and what have you. i heard someone say about 'acid being thrown in womens face' adn what have you. maybe in Sudan or some REALLY third world place *cough*or saudi arabia *cough* that would happen, btu again you use the brush of "MIDDLE EAST" again.

Isnt Turkey part of that circle? (even thoughis is close to europe it still has been classified as middle east) they are quite prgressive and up to date. Lebenon? they have a nice system too.

The whole Humanitarian thing is pretty simple. How can you help anyone out of their problems when you are broke, near economic collapse, in debt after a war that was kinda foisted on you and just had your major money making facilities bombed to hell?

Does it matter what the Governments of a country do? Reach out to different faiths, well, if you go pretty much anywhere in Iran (i use this because this is what i am familiar with) and say 'i am an American and Christian, how do you do?' you will be greeted with much friendship and kindness. and you will have your rights respected. they wont force a Qu'ran in your face and say 'WE ARE RIGHT YOU ARENT, BURN IN HELL YOU SINNER!' just like if you go to certain southern churches, the preachers will spill out that type of fire and brimstoen shanagans, but you arent going there to listen to that.

Ah, yes, the Soviet union was there during Iran but rapidly imploding and yes they sent a few dilapitated tanks over but wanted our oil feilds in return so we told them to screw off. I dont think my uncle or cousins had any russians bneside them in the bunkers.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by The last sane person

You should have no fear of the average shmuk walking down the street who has darker skin than you. And if they were all bent on killing you, you would have been dead by now. So now worries there. If a guy wanted to blow up the seven elven he wouldnt walz in there, buy a coke then leave.

Oh - I'm not afraid of someone just because of their skin. But it is more likely that a muslim will go into a grocery store and blow themselves up than other people. So - yes - it does happen - and chances are it will here. If I had gone to England during the 80's - I would have most likely have been nervous around an Irish person - even though my ancestors were irish. My father had some close call with IRA bombings - one was at Harrods - he had just left.

No- you dont see Americans dancing in the street, you see them glued to the TV set and cheering when the bombs fell on Iraq. ( I was witness to that seen myself in a local pub).

What do you expect from a bunch of drunks? The thing is - the people cheering in the Middle East aren't drunk - they actually celebrate it.

As for the palestinians....Well, that is a different cake altogether. Since they have no military-or real weapons- to take on anything, they go with the only opption they have. To strap a home made bomb and kill themselves along with the Isrealites.

So that makes the purposeful killing of men, women and children okay? They don't try to prevent civilian deaths - they go out of their way to cause them.

but you said you dont understand why they do that... take a look at the average Palestinian situation, they are poor, treated as second class citizens, live in poverty and fear that Israeli bulldozer is going to come and tear down their home, mosque, village and put up a settlement. They fear the Soldiers with their American issued gear coming in and killing their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters and loved ones.

There wouldn't be any problem with israel or any "occupied" terrortories - if the Arab countries didn't try destroying israel. Tell the Palestinians to stop bombing - everytime Israel pulls back - some maniac palestinian blows himself up. Sorry - but you know what - the Palestinians and the supporters of terrorism are more at fault then the israelis. The Israelis may not do everything right - but they far from the aggressors.

They have no voice, and when they do speak they are overshadowed by "the terrorist threat" and the jewish state that wishes to expand and in essence boot them out and claim it all for themselves. As such when they see those that are around them die and they themselves reduced to sub par living in a place that doesnt recognize them, why bother living?

You know what - palestinians and isralias lived side by side in Israel and worked together. It wasn't until the intefattah that the the check points were set up and everythign else. YOu tell the palestinians to stop bombing. You know - there were several times where peace between israel and the palestians was possible - but Arafat nor the Middle East wants that.

Why let those that kill your women and children, disgrace your religion and integraty as a human get away scott free with your land and life blood? I would, should i ever be reduced to such a state (God forbid!) would as such do as that Palestinian lawyer did. Strap a bomb on me, plant myself next to my aggressor and blow myself sky high. And arent the children in that "refugee" camp that the Israeli army pumped missles into, innocent too? what about them? If that isnt true as Israel claims, then why has Israel Point blank refused Nato to come and investigate the area?

Where are the terrorists coming from? They came from that camp - it was in RESPONSE to a bombing. The Palestinians STOP bombing and the israelis will stop.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by The last sane person
May a 'middle easterner' get a word in here, if its not to much to ask? First of all, I am an Iranian born and raised girl. I lived in Canada, then the US (and i am very proud of my people and my country). I have been watching this thing grow and i have just been thinking about it and waiting for a time to respond. I think now is fine.

Hi, I think now is fine too. This discussion needs someone who has been raised in an islamic country and has some firsthand knowledge.

I think you have a very good point when you say that there are many flavors of islam and that there are huge differences throughout the world on how people practise their religion. This however is generally not understood, at least not among europeans as I can tell. What we are exposed to through media is the islamic extremism. In the western media we generally only get to see a tiny part of the diversity that exists out there.

The problem with Islam in a modern society is , as I see it, that they look upon the words in the Coran as coming directly from Allah, and therefore should be taken literally. It does not open up for interpretations, and it is difficult to adjust to changing times.

BTW: I don't think this thread was meant to house a political discussion - again.