Is the Aragorn-Arwen love story important to the LOTR?

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Elvellyn
I think she was very important to the development of Aragorn's character.

How? What we get to see is a man in love with a beautiful woman. Very ordinary. I admit she is backing him up, helping him to believe in his own strength. But I think that role could easily have been filled by other persons.

[Daughter of Elros]

To be diplomatic- No, it wasn't the most iportant part of the plot, by any means. But she was needed. Simple reason being nearly every great movie has some strain of romance in it. Personally, I think that the Arewn that appears is far better than the alernative that was originally written into the script "Xena- Arwen TM" she gives aragorn a softer side- Basically, she makes women jealous and helps them to fall for Aragorn. and you have to admit, if that's what PJ fran and Phillipa were going for, it worked.
-DoE

[Nurvingiel]

Originally posted by Artanis
How? What we get to see is a man in love with a beautiful woman. Very ordinary. I admit she is backing him up, helping him to believe in his own strength. But I think that role could easily have been filled by other persons.

Arwen had that special flare, in the book anyway, even if she was added at the last minute. Maybe she was added because she was needed to develop Aragorn's character. But this still doesn't make her super important.

[olsonm]

Originally posted by Artanis
How? What we get to see is a man in love with a beautiful woman. Very ordinary.

There is very little that is ordinary about their relationship. Arwen and Aragorn's love exemplifies all the major themes of the book but it isn't essential to the story. The only essential aspect of the story is Frodo and Sam's personal journey; the fact that they save the world in the way that they do: with the wise and powerful in a supporting role. All other elements are secondary. I think their love story is as important as Tom Bombadil or the Eowyn/Faramir romance but the story can be told without it/them. However, I'm glad it's a part of this particular adaption.

[azalea]

Another point I thought of:
While I personally would have been happy to have Arwen's role stay true to the book, like it or not modern audiences need a "relationship" with a character like that. If you're going to include her at all, she cannot be relegated to "fairy tale princess" status (no depth, only appearing to fill in for the hero's need for a damsel to wed). Audiences in today's world, where feelings and sensitivity are openly discussed and expected, need to SEE the relationship between the romantic leads, or they won't have a feeling of saticfaction with the relationship, ie, it will be unbelievable. That is why I understand PJ et al's motivation in filling in scenes and dialogue for the two of them.

[Black Breathalizer]

I really think Azalea nailed it. The wedding of Aragorn and Arwen, which was essential to any adaptation of the books would have fallen flat if the audience only identified with the groom. When we finally see the ROTK's grande finale, it will all make much more sense.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

That's it BB; when you run out of things to say, just wait for someone to say something, and agree.

Seriously, though...

The story should be the same, regardless of it's a movie or a book. Naturally, it would be different, altered for the screen, but still the STORY, the CHARACTERS, and everything like that, should still be the same.

[Nurvingiel]

My point is, the story has importance, but it's not the most important by far.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Correct. It is perfect in the Appendices.

[olsonm]

(in LOTR) I am only concerned with Death as part of the nature, physical and spiritual, of Man, and with Hope without guarantees. That is why I regard the tale of Aragorn and Arwen as the most important of the Appendices; it is part of the essential story, and is only placed so, because it could not be worked into the main narrative without destorying it's structure: which is planned to be 'hobbito-centric', that is, primarily a study of the enoblement (or santification) of the humble.
---The Letters of JRR Tolkien #181

I think in light of the fact that movies don't have appendices, Tolkien would have approved of including their love story (and it's deeper meanings) in some way. Not as a necessary element: but as an optional one. PJ's execution of the story is another matter.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

It certainly is.

[olsonm]

Yes it is. But now that we know that the Aragorn/Arwen love story is important to LOTR should we shift the discussion to PJ's execution or is that best done in a new thread?

[azalea]

I think it would be fine to open the discussion in this thread to include critique of Jackson's execution of the story, focusing on how the poster might have executed it. But I think people should still post their opinions on whether or not the love story was important to include in the movie version if they wish, because you know there'll be people who may disagree w/ Tolkien himself anyway!

[Sween]

Arwen is a key part of Aragorn in the books and the movies. Anyone that does not believe so is a fool. You see anyone that has read the tale of Aragorn and Arwen will know that he stumbled across her in the woods in Rivendell and though she was luthien anyway thats all background info. But the point is Elrond says that she will not die for no lesser man tyhan the king of Gondor and Arnor (not exact quote) and that is the point where Aragorn set his sights on the kingship and does everything possiable to get it. It directally after that he leaves to go serve for Rohan and Gondor under tha alias of Thonogil so she has played a very very important role for him in the books.

IMHO the way Jackson has played it out in the movie is no where near as touching she comes across as a bit of a silly girl who just fancies him. The kinda girl thats dateing the guy that smokes for no other reason than hes kinda cute and her perents dont like it. This stems from the fact that Aragorn has rejected kingship so it cannot really work him doing it all for her. The way its playing in the movie it has taken away allmost all of the emotinal reasoning from the book

[Daughter of Elros]

just thought I'd point out. We all agree that the story fits wonderfully in the appendices. And yet, there ARE no such things existing within the movie. so then the romance MUST become a subplot off of the main plot. no way to avoid it. simple.

-DoE

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Sween
IMHO the way Jackson has played it out in the movie is no where near as touching she comes across as a bit of a silly girl who just fancies him. The kinda girl thats dateing the guy that smokes for no other reason than hes kinda cute and her parents dont like it.

A silly girl?!??! Based on what? In the movies, Arwen has been seen serving as a source of emotional support for Aragorn. The only possible "silly girl" thing I can think of from the movies is when she cries when Elrond harshly discusses her ultimate loneliness and death if she casts aside her immortality for Aragorn. This strikes me as a very natural reacton--even for an elf who has lived hundreds of years.

I think the truth is that some people here like to rail against Arwen simply because Liv Tyler (the star of some "silly girl" movies) is playing her, not because of her acting or her character's actions.

[Sween]

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer
A silly girl?!??! Based on what? In the movies, Arwen has been seen serving as a source of emotional support for Aragorn. The only possible "silly girl" thing I can think of from the movies is when she cries when Elrond harshly discusses her ultimate loneliness and death if she casts aside her immortality for Aragorn. This strikes me as a very natural reacton--even for an elf who has lived hundreds of years.

I think the truth is that some people here like to rail against Arwen simply because Liv Tyler (the star of some "silly girl" movies) is playing her, not because of her acting or her character's actions.

At no point does ghe give any indication of how they met or the fact that to a certain extent they were destined to be togther i think the film is missing a lot of destiny a quality which i have allways found facinating.

i have no problem with Liv Tyler apart from the fact i dont see why people think shes fit. But when she says i would rather spend one life time with you and all the kissing and stuff and her strop when aragorn tells her it was just a dream to smack a bit of saved by the bell.

[Black Breathalizer]

Originally posted by Sween
At no point does she give any indication of how they met or the fact that to a certain extent they were destined to be togther.

You might want to watch the FOTR's Arwen-Aragorn love scene again on your VCR.

Originally posted by Sween
i have no problem with Liv Tyler apart from the fact i dont see why people think shes fit. But when she says i would rather spend one life time with you and all the kissing and stuff and her strop when aragorn tells her it was just a dream to smack a bit of saved by the bell.

One man's "Lord of the Rings" is another's..."Saved by the Bell"?!?!?!??!!?

[Nurvingiel]

Is Liv Tyler in Saved by the Bell or something?

I think Liv Tyler is fine as Arwen. Also, PJ does a pretty good job of portraying the love story. I would have toned it down more, had I been the director, because the love story was very sublte and discrete in the book.

In FotR, I would have done the Flight to the Ford a bit differently. Frodo would have been the one to defy the Nazgul, and I would have left Glorfindel to be the one to give Frodo his horse.

The way this scene was layed out and filmed was beauty. I wouldn't change this at all, just reorganise a few of the characters.

Also, I would delete the scene between Arwen and Elrond in TTT. I didn't feel it contributed much, even though I acknowledge the fact that it explained stuff about elves and mortality that people who didn't read the books can't be expected to know.

Replacing the now deleted Arwen would be flashbacks from Aragorn highlighting the relevant points that Arwen's character was used to explain. I always got the impression, in the books, that Aragorn thought about her a lot.

Edit: spelling is for the weak

[Black Breathalizer]

Thank God that Peter Jackson made these movies and NOT Nurvingiel!!!