The Valar

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Lalaith
Maybe Aule was more tempted with force than the others but not as much as Melkor and in some way he had his temptation under controll.

I just thought of something else too...the Noldor were much loved by Aule and look at what most of them did....very interesting

[Arien the Maia]

Here's something that I've been a tad confused about....when Luthien sang before Morgoth, he started devising a new plan. Doesn't it say in the Sil that lust overcame him? Did he mean to take Luthien for himself as a sort of "concubine"?

[Lalaith]

Yuk
What a disgusting imagination.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
Here's something that I've been a tad confused about....when Luthien sang before Morgoth, he started devising a new plan. Doesn't it say in the Sil that lust overcame him? Did he mean to take Luthien for himself as a sort of "concubine"?

From the Silmarillion. Of Beren and Luthien. Chapter 19. Houghton Mifflin edition. 1977.

but Luthien was stripped of her disguise by the will of Morgoth, and he bent his gaze upon her. She was not daunted by his eyes; and she named her own name, and offered her service to sing before him, after the manner of a minstrel. Then Morgoth looking upon her beauty conceived in his thought an evil lust, and a design more dark than any that yet had come into his heart since he had fled from Valinor. Thus he was beguiled by his own malice, for he watched her, leaving her free for a while, and taking secret pleasure in his thought. Then suddenly she eluded his sight, and out of the shadow began a song of such surpassing loveliness, and of such blinding power, that he listened perforce; and a blindness came upon him, as his eyes roamed to and fro, seeking her.

I think he had greater plans than just taking her for himself, but what his plan was is not told. It must have been horrific though for it to be darker than any that had come into his thought since leaving Valinor. Since it says that he was beguiled by his own malice, then there was no need I guess for Tolkien to explain further because his plan never came to be.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Since the valar and mair involved in making Arda put portions of their existance into their cration, I would predict that they are going to be rather devestated when sun turn into a red giant and destroys the solar system.

[Artanis]

If Morgoth had succeded in capturing Luthien, he would have had a terrible weapon against Doriath.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Since the valar and mair involved in making Arda put portions of their existance into their cration, I would predict that they are going to be rather devestated when sun turn into a red giant and destroys the solar system.

If it does then it was in their plan all along. Remember they created the sun and the moon.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Artanis
If Morgoth had succeded in capturing Luthien, he would have had a terrible weapon against Doriath.

How would he have used such a weapon?

[Sister Golden Hair]

This makes me think of the discussion going on in the M-e forum about Hurin. If Morgoth had captured Luthien, would she have succumbed. Hurin didn't, and afterall, Luthien was much more powerful.

[Lalaith]

Whit Luthien captured, Morgoth would have forced Thingol to do things which would be no good for anyboy at all.
Thingol would want to help Luthien and in the end it would all be only worse.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Lalaith
Whit Luthien captured, Morgoth would have forced Thingol to do things which would be no good for anyboy at all.
Thingol would want to help Luthien and in the end it would all be only worse.

I am not so sure that Luthien would remain a prisoner for long. Look at all of her great escapes. All she has to do is lull Angband to sleep again.

Also, don't forget that her mother was a Maia, and Morgoth would be taking a big chance trying to imprison Luthien and using her to overthrow Doriath. He wouldn't easily succeed I don't think.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
How would he have used such a weapon?

He could have threatened to do her ill, and by that gained power over Thingol. That could have been his plan, aside from his freeling of lust.

[Arien the Maia]

I think he was planning on taking her for his "wife" and then having a child by her...sort of an "anit-Christ" figure.

[Lalaith]

If two powerful characters - one representing all good and one all evil - have a child, this child will maybe be more powerful than the parents in common. With the right education it could become the strongest warrior for the good .... or for the bad.

[Wayfarer]

In the Lays of Beleriand, morgoth elucidates on what he was going to do with here: Rape and Murder.


As for

If two powerful characters - one representing all good and one all evil - have a child, this child will maybe be more powerful than the parents in common.

Actually, The child of two exceptional parents will tend towards the genetic mean.

[Lalaith]

Actually, The child of two exceptional parents will tend towards the genetic mean.

And what would be the genetic mean?