Death Of Sauron. Spoilers

Well, he died, as far as Ainur can die. He can't rise again.

That picture of him isn't the Sauron that was sitting on his throne in the Black Tower, however, it's the gigantic shadow that rises up after the destruction of the Ring, before the wind out of the West blows him away.

Sauron had to have had a humanoid form, I agree. Regarding the statue, I bet the face, or the position of the eye was an accurate representation of Sauron. So much is made of the Eye I wonder often if he only had one.

of course Sauron had an humanoid form: it was the same that fought against Isildur. Gollum saw him and said he oly had four fingers in one hand... but they were enough.

Maybe this has been brought up but I'll bring it up again(and yes I read the whole thread).
Sauron "died"when the RING was destroyed.He had put ALL of his power in it (or most of it anyway) and when it was destroyed the power that he had put in the Ring was destroyed along with it container(that's why the Ring took control of everyone who bore it and that is also how it drew the will of Sauron to it)so I think that if Most or all of Saurons power was destroyed with the Ring thus killing him,he was'nt killed by some guys sword or anything like that,he was destroyed when the Ring was destroyed.In the movie I think that Sauron will be destroyed as he is in the book,considering that PJ is a major Tolkien fan(as Wood puts it"he breathes Tolkien").
Um yeah we probably DO see Sauron on several occasions or we hear his voice. Why do I say that.#1 When Gandalf is talking with frodo in Bag end they bring up the history of the Ring including the battle where the Ring is lost and the part where Gollum is captured.#2.Pippin uses the Palantir in the movie and sees Sauron so I think we will see a bit of the discourse that goes between Pippin and Sauron.#4.We will probably see an eye in Baradur sweeping over the Plain of Morgoth to look at Mt Doom where the Ring is calling from,well I think that's what MIGHT happen,but I'm not sure,it be cool if that did happen,way cooler then this guy flying from a window and getting impaled on a spike,that's just plain goofey.
Oh BTW who IS that wizard on the wheel?Saruman?
Sam

I believe the wizard on the wheel is supposed to be Saruman, yeah...

As for Sauron, I too hope we will be seeing him in the movie, and that it will happen as in the book, and not be changed to make it more... appealing to the audience... Tolkien fans all over the world will probably be seeing the movie so many times that they bring in twice as much as all the rest in total, so they should really make it as true to the book as possible...

Just some clarification. Sauron never died in the books

Darth tateer have you been smoking something funny? Sauron gets destroyed in the books as in killed,it says in the return of the king that they saw this great cloud rising from Barad Dur and reaching out toward the west then a western wind came up and blew it away.Rising from Barad Dur what else do you think it might be? An orc? What makes you say that Sauron did'nt get killed?
Sam

Ok Sam... if YOU get killed what will happen? You'll be a corpse, nothing else. Sauron wasn't killed. To be killed, you have to be a mortal. Sauron was not. He has not been killed, he was destroyed as you say and so did Tater.

There is a big difference between those two wordings.

What Shan said. He'll be back at the end of the world I'm sure, he's just gonna need a lot longer to recuperate then last time

Oh well then forgive me for not being as experienced as you are in the Lord of the Rings. Darth Tater he could'nt come back he was DESTROYED to me being destroyed is the last and ulitmate form of death. Saurons body was killed in Numenor.But his spirit lived on weakend yes but not wholly destroyed, then the Ring was lost and Saurons spirit diminished and went into hiding but once again it grew into power after the Ring was found, when it was destroyed then Sauron was ultimatly and finally destroyed he could not return again.That's how I see it and sorry for being such a numbskull I once again put my over large foot in my over large mouth.
Sam
Ps.Hey here's a question for ya. Was the first war with Sauron(you know the one with Isildor)before or after the fall of Numenor?It's impossible to fight a spirit but Sauron died in the fall of Numenor but the Rings were new when he went to Numenor as a captive and most of his power was in the Ring(that's what initially destroyed him was the destruction of the Ring and we saw what happened when the Balrogs form was killed)so if the Ring had been lost before he went to Numenor then he would have been weakend but if the war was after then Isildor would have had to deal with a spirit which would be nearly impossible.
And Darth Tater were you talking literal sense in saying he's comin back or was that just a joke? I can never be sure on this type of thing

The war between Sauron and Gil-Galad, Elendil, Isildur etc(also known as the Last Alliance between elves and men) was not the first war with Sauron. But that one was after the downfall of Numenor, as Elendil and Isildur both fled from Numenor when it was destroyed, and came to ME and established their nations.
Sauron had been the cause of that downfall, after being brought there by... who was it? Ar-Pharazon? after Sauron was taken POW by them.

For the coming back, it's your guess... It's not written anywhere!

I like to think of Sauron being only able to watch the event of the world, but in no way participate in them. I like to think of the End as when all the forces come back to their original power because all their power that was trapped in the world will be released.

I like to think he controls the US... could explain so much... :lol:

Sam, Sauron never died, never never never never never. period.

But he was DESTROYED Darth Tater.Dying is just where your spirit is released from your body,being DESTROYED means all memory of you is erased, your gravestone, your body, your files in the city hall, etc are all destroyed and thus you are eliminated forever never again to return.Sauron DIED in Numenor but he lived on as a spirit then when the Ring was destroyed he was destroyed never again to return.
Read this e-mail I got from Erik Tracey it's conserning Balrogs but I think this can go for Sauron and all Maiar who have physical forms:Yes...the Balrogs were maiar. I have not done any research as to their
mortality. But I will conjecture on this based on what I've read. In the
mythos of Middle-earth, a spirit must have physicality in order to work
effects. That is why the maiar took shape in the form of balrogs, that is
why Melkor took shape and became Morgoth and the same for Sauron - because
they wanted to exert their will to dominate others. Each of the maiar and
the valar had power or potentiality each according to their own stature.
When a maiar chose to take physical form it expends a certain amount of
this innate/inner power. Depending on the form chosen - more or less of
this power is used up.

In the case of Sauron, he chose to expend and invest a major portion of his
power in the making of the One Ring. When Numenor was sunk and his
physical body destroyed he was forced to be nothing more than a shapeless
shadow for countless years as he slowly rebuilt enough power to again take
physical form. And when the One Ring was destroyed and the major amount of
his power dissipated - he was utterly destroyed.

Yet because he was a maia, his spirit could not be "killed" but doomed to
be within Middle-earth as powerless and ineffectual.

I think the same holds for the Balrogs - because they chose such powerful
*real* forms they expended all of their potentiality - their inner power -
to become "demons of might". And so subjected themselves to the same
possible fate as Sauron - if their physical form was bested and destroyed,
they were effectively doomed to be powerless shapeless spirits.

Hope that made sense.

And sorry for the delay in replying - just very busy lately.

Regards,
Erik
Okay ok I know that that one thing says that his spirit could not be killed but for Sauron being a memory just a bad dream is like being destroyed to him so he was destroyed which is a type of form of death.
Sam

"'The realm of Sauron is ended!' said Gandalf. 'The Ring-bearer has fulfilled his Quest.' And as the Captains gazed south to the Land of Mordor, it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell."

Hrmm Sam, your favorite word, destroyed, seems to be missing from that, the passage we have been discussing all along. Oh and he didn't die in Numenor, inoldonil can undoubtedly explain that better then I, since he basically convinced me of it

from what i've read in the last part of "Morgoth's Ring", Tolkien hasn't a definite idea about the consequences respecting Sauron of destroying the Ring.

However it seems that the Professor was making his mind to this idea: Sauron was not annihilated, cuz fea (=spirit) cannot be annihilated, but he was reduced to a form of being so low that he could never, never rise again nor get a new form.

Sauron would be only a mere desire of power over Middle Earth, but he would be unable to do anything.

Tolkien had in this moment a different idea for Melkor: he could raise again, cuz his power was not bound to a ring, but to the whole Middle Earth and that hadn't been destroyed. So Melkor could raise again for the final battle.

I really resent all this comparing Sauron to Bush. Sauron has more dignity than Bush could ever have! How dare you defile such a worthy opponent?

--Erewë

Tut tut tut.... I never said Bush WAS Sauron... I suggested I might be that puppet's master!

That so different!

[Erewe]

Ah! I see. Well, I guess every bad guy needs a goofy servant.

--Erewë