Of Crossbreeds...

[Foul_Dwimmerlaik]

Elves may be "beautiful, magical and wonderful," but they are also petty, strident, violent, arrogant and supercilious. And that's just Feanor!

In all seriousness, I think the reason that Elves and Men rarely intermingled is the simple fact that for an Elf, marrying a Man meant either giving up immortality or watching the person you love grow old and die in the blink of your eye. It is the rare Elf that is able to make that choice and live with it.

[Araethirion]

Originally posted by barrelrider110
He also referred to her in his letters as his Luthien Tnuviel and he as her Beren.\

In fact, on Tolkien's grave [[I believe]] there is the name "Beren" and on Edith's, "Luthien"

As for the couplings of creatures besides Elves/Men, I agree that the lifestyles of other creatures are much different, but Elves and Men re quite similar, yet different enough for their not to be too much crossbreds.

[ragamuffin92]

Originally posted by Foul_Dwimmerlaik
In all seriousness, I think the reason that Elves and Men rarely intermingled is the simple fact that for an Elf, marrying a Man meant either giving up immortality or watching the person you love grow old and die in the blink of your eye. It is the rare Elf that is able to make that choice and live with it.

That was a very sensitive post, coming from a servant of Sauron. You'd better watch yourself, or people will start to see that there is a soft heart under that black robe, (and a soft head under that crown.). I mean, how would it look if people stopped cowering with fear at your approach and instead, started throwing roses at your invisible feet?

I don't recall ever reading about an elf becoming involved romantically with a human without having to make the choice between mortality and immortality. I'd always presumed that if an elf chose to marry a mortal, they had to give up their ride from the havens. Could be wrong, tho...

[FrodoFriend]

I wonder why it doesn't go the other way too. Why couldn't a human gift up the Gift of Death as easily as an elf give up immortality?

[ragamuffin92]

Good question--never thought of it. (You're being smarter than me again--KNOCK IT OFF!!)
Maybe Eru realized that most humans would probably want immortality, and that would negate the gift? And could you imagine the lines at the Havens? Cirdan couldn't build enough ships--he'd have to farm out some of his work. And I could just hear the Elves in the Undying Realm. "AI, more humans!! There goes the neighborhood..."

[Foul_Dwimmerlaik]

Ragamuffin:

Um...I think the Witch-Princess must have been on the computer earlier tonight...I can assure you that the Lord of the Nazgul would never post such sap. Now then....Elf, Man or Melf, they're Dwimmerbait.

[ragamuffin92]

Thank you for restoring my faith in your evilness. I can't stomach too much change, you know, and a Witch King who resmebles a male version of Glinda, the Good Witch from The Wizard of Oz just FREAKED ME OUT,MAN!! LOL

[FrodoFriend]

Originally posted by ragamuffin92
Good question--never thought of it. (You're being smarter than me again--KNOCK IT OFF!!)
Maybe Eru realized that most humans would probably want immortality, and that would negate the gift? And could you imagine the lines at the Havens? Cirdan couldn't build enough ships--he'd have to farm out some of his work. And I could just hear the Elves in the Undying Realm. "AI, more humans!! There goes the neighborhood..."

Funny image. But I only meant the (3?) men who ended up marrying elves or whatever, so there wouldn't be whole lines of 'em. Can elves even become mortal unless they marry a human? I guess they'd have no reason, but I was just wondering.

[Starr Polish]

I think it's along the line (and remember this is MY interpretation) that the reason elves give up their immortality to love a human is because they die of grief at the loss of their love, since the only way elves can die is to be slain or die from grief.

[FrodoFriend]

Hmm . . . so they would still look immortal. I can't remember if Arwen aged or not, and I don't want to look it up. Does anyone know?

[ragamuffin92]

Sounds reasonable to me.

LOL--And, in case anyone has been wondering why I open posts with, "Oh, Starr Polish," or "Oh, FrodoFriend," I'm imitating a comedian, the late Jack Benny. He had a real funny radio show (before TV and before my time--I've heard tapes). When he was trying to scam something (he was real cheap), he would start the next sentence by saying, "Oh...oh, Don," (or whoever he was talking to).

[Ñólendil]

"There are the Uruk-hai, but that was a sick experiment, not happy lovey-dovey crossbreeding."

You're thinking of the Half-orcs, which are not the same thing. The Uruk-hai were large soldier Orcs (almost as tall as Men), made my Sauron early on in the Third Age. The Half-orcs and Goblin-men were made by Saruman from the Orcs of Isengard and (apparently) Dunlendings in his service, late in the Third Age. Uruk-hair only = Half-orcs in the movies.

[FrodoFriend]

Okay, sorry, I got confused. I wonder how they did manage to cross Orcs and Men? Surely it wasn't willing? I dont' think even the Dunlendings would stoop to that.

[afro-elf]

Mithrellas married Imazor and I believe she sailed west.

There is an good article at mike martinez's site about it.


I'll TRY to find and post the link here.

[Arathorn]

I think that since humans multiply so fast, they needed to stay in ME to die. Or else you'll have a real estate problem and high-rise towers in the West.

[Wayfarer]

Frodo Friend...

Men, under the sway of a dark lord, could actually be reduced to the level of orcs, and induced to mate with them.

I, personally, don't see what you need a dark lord for, but that's just cynical me.

[Ñólendil]

I wonder how they did manage to cross Orcs and Men?

I'd rather not guess.

Men, under the sway of a dark lord, could actually be reduced to the level of orcs, and induced to mate with them.

That's from Morgoth's Ring, isn't it? All the same Saruman was no Dark Lord and many of the Dunlendings thought they were fighting on the right side.

[Starr Polish]

Well, I"ve found evidence of some odd crossbreeding.

1/3 elf, 1/3 hobbit, 1/3 human...don't ask me how the ratios worked out, they just did. This 'species' is called an elfitan, or elfbitan (a combination of the other three). Where is this creature you say?

Why, it's me! I've got most of the features. I am very short, I have dark hair, but very human features (and I believe that elves have pointy ears, and I don't ) and I'm very slight of figure and have itty bitty feet that sometimes walk on snow without leaving footprints (when there's ice, but hey!)

[Arathorn]

Why, it's me! I've got most of the features.

LOL, one word of advice; don't let your parents read your post

[Starr Polish]

Hmm...well, me mum must be the hobbit side/elven side, My dad actually looks kind of like Strider. He's a 'ruggedly handsome' man with dark hair that's beginning to gray...he's also got a very ranger-ish attitude, hiking straight up mountains and such, all over the place.

Yipes!