Musings upon a Fifth Viewing

[Vardasoroniel]

Originally posted by luinilwen
you can tell some elvish (or linguistic) specialists had a hand in it. (eg. the h being pronounced as ich-laut (sounds like you're about to spit) not breath h, the trilled r etc.) but they really had to have that detail, as the language had already been established by tolkien, and the fans who are fluent in elvish really would have had their knickers in a twist had it been inaccurate. i think all the armour and weaponry was hand made too... can anyone confirm that?

for the languages there were two language coaches who consulted both tolkien's own writings on the linguistics of ME and several tolkien language specialists who helped in actual vocalization of the different words and phrasings.

the swords and armor were originally conceptualized for the movie by john howe(who has done some amazing LOTR art - his 2002 LOTR calendar is beautiful!).

the swords for the main characters were created by an actual swordsmith who used the methods of ancient swordsmiths to craft the blades. the background weapons in the big scenes were all also created by john howe made of urethane and colored to look like steel.

the armor was also conceptualized by john howe and the originals were made of plate steel and hand hammered into shape by armor smiths. then molds were made and polyurethane copies were made for the armies.

this is probably far more than you wanted to know!!! but as you can see, i'm enthusiastic about this movie!!!!!!

[Starr Polish]

Can't read fast enough? Eh. I'm not going to say anything since everyone thinks I"m a 'speed reader' (actually, sometimes I read to fast and skip paragraphs or even pages without realizing it...it's odd, I know)
I saw Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon with subtitles, and once I got into the flow of things, I almost thought they were actually speaking the English. Then I saw it dubbed...ugh! I

[Entlover]

If you go to the official website, they say under Production that there were 900 suits of handmade armor; that 3 people spent over a year making links of aluminium (I think, or something light-weight) to make the armor out of.
Did anyone notice the pottery? They also talk about the full time potter they hired to make whole sets of bowls, mugs, etc. I loved the mugs in Bag End. Wonder if any of those will be for sale.

[luinilwen]

this is probably far more than you wanted to know!!! but as you can see, i'm enthusiastic about this movie!!!!!!

on the contrary my friend vardasoroniel, i am grateful for the information you have provided me with and hope that you may be as informative and pleasing to converse with in future

as for crouching tiger hidden dragon, i agree with the dubbed version being a turn off. it just seems so unnatural. although i prefer anime to be dubbed

[Gerbil]

Originally posted by luinilwen
although i prefer anime to be dubbed

Have you seen the dubbed version of Akira? Utter ****.
Long live subtitles.

[Vardasoroniel]

Originally posted by luinilwen


on the contrary my friend vardasoroniel, i am grateful for the information you have provided me with and hope that you may be as informative and pleasing to converse with in future

i misspoke on one point of info - it isn't john howe who did the wonderful 2002 calendar; it's ted naismith. check it out if you have a chance.

btw, would anyone happen to know where there is an easy to download elven(Tengwar) scriptor/fonts? i've found 2 sites but when i downloaded the files my computer wouldn't accept either of them, saying the files were both 'corrupt'(must be files from Mordor, eh?!)

have a free day today and am going back to immerse myself in ME at the cinema!!!!!

[bropous]

I had heard there were over 48,000 pieces of armor and weaponry created for the film. Now I know that not all of them were forged, that a lot of them may have been urethane, I am still impressed. The major weapons were made in the ancient ways of the forge, and the level of creativity is just fascinating.

I know what you folks are talking about with subtitles. Even if a film is just fantastic, if they know going into it that it is subtitled, most folks will simply pass it by. I happen to really enjoy foreign [non-US] films, and some of my favorites [Johnny Stecchino, italian, par exemplar] are subtitled and it takes nothign away from the enjoyment; in fact, a lot of times I find it more interesting to follow the spoken word with the subtitles, listening to the flow of an unknown language.

I watched the entire "Mahabrata" in some hindu language, something like 32 installments shown one per week, and I loved it. Quite interesting. Most folks wouldn't give it a second thought.

[Gerbil]

Good old Ted Nasmith.
Personally I prefer him to Howe.
I feel Ted kind of misses some of the recognition he deserves which is unfortunate.

Partly I'm biased because I prefer his style, but also there's several instances of his interpretations of places being closer to what I envisge than other artists.

As an example, I find the FotR version (Howe's isn't it? Not sure...) of Minas Tirith to be.... slightly stupid. It's just not practical nor likely to build a city as vertically as they did. Also it's just not big enough as a result to be how I imagined it.
TN's version on the other hand, was more open plan, and not quite so steep.

[bropous]

I actually prefer the Brothers Hildebrandt art of Middle-Earth, but I'm admittedly biased on that as it was the first Tolkienist art [aside from JRR's drawings] I was exposed to [got a calendar by them the same Christmas I finally was able to get a copy of Return of the King]. I also like the Naismith [sp?] and Howe art work.

Good points about the "civil engineering" aspect of the Jackson film vision of Minas Tirith. Unless the city bends around the shoulder of Mount Mindolluin towards the south, out of view in the Fellowship shots, then the city is really too small, at least in my mind's eye. Now, since it was Oslgiliath and not Minas Tirith which had been the major city in early Gondor, maybe it is made smaller for that reason. I think the rings of the city also should have been broader, and the city much more impressive size-wise.

I do like the architecture and general portrayal of the city, but there could be improvements.

[Gerbil]

Speaking of which, you should be able to see the ruins of Osgiliath between Minas Tirith and Mordor, but I checked in the film (fleeting few seconds of film that it is) and you can't see anything.....

[Gildor]

I, too, enjoyed the movie much better the second time. I went to a different theatre. The screen was taller and I actually saw the captions; the surround sound was great. Best of all, I spent more time noticing details. It will take many viewings to see it all--particularly in the battle scenes. I'm looking forward to the video.

[bropous]

But, Gerbil, I think Osgiliath might have been off the right hand of the shot, out of range of the camera, to the north of Minas Tirith.

[Gerbil]

Depends - are we talking about the same shot?
I'm thinking of the one with Minas Tirith on the right and mordor along the left.
You should definately be able to see Osgiliath in some form or another, since basically you can see the whole area.

[bropous]

Gerbil, I think the point-of-view is from the east-by-northeast, looking pretty much directly towards Mount Doom across Minas Tirith. From this viewpoint, it is pretty possible Osgiliath is just out of shot to the left.

[Pailan]

I saw the FotR again on Wednesday at a matinee show. Much better sound system, stadium seating and nice sized screen. And while watching the flick, Icouldn't shake this nagging feeling that I wanted more. (Could I be addicted to this?)

In particular, I wanted more of Rivendel. I wanted to see the feasting and poetry reading and all that stuff before the council meeting. I know the movie would've been longer and I'll have to wait for the director's cut (if there really is one to be had someday.)

Overall, I am really impressed how this holds up under repeated viewings. And i don't do this often but when this comes out I must buy it, own it, yes my precious little FotR you will be mine someday.... Oops gone off again

[Laurelyn]

As for #2, in the credits it says "cute hobbit children" before rolling off the kid actors' names.

The launguage thing was indeed cool, with the rolled r's and stuff. It made it seem more real. The thing about Boromir's cloak has a point, too.

By the way . . . 5 viewings . . . aw, dammit, lucky . . .

~Laurelyn

[coolismo]

On yet another viewing I went to get to the bottom of why FOTR is such a jarring experience cinematically. There are some oddities about the picture that are quite disorientating….
The absence of continuity close ups: these are good for covering distances. For example you see a shot of a man getting into say a car. Then a mid shot of the car pulling off. Then a close up of the man looking right. Then a long shot of the car turning right at the end of a long road. You have seen the car cover an impossible distance in real time but the close up has a continuity effect and it doesn’t jag your brain. There are few well managed shots like this in Fellowship. The fellowship get in a elf boat and push off then a fast cut to a mid shot and ….they are already some hundreds of yards off. The effect is a bit like that moment on a roller coaster when you are suddenly jerked forward.
Different film stocks. Within sequences the film stock changes drastically. Leaving the shire the film has a mattish silk quality then we get to the border of the shire and the scarecrow. The change in stock is drastic. The grain is different, the camera is at full depth of field and its like your on a different planet. It comes so close to that it doesn’t do anything but look odd. When the camera goes into mid shot of Sam the scarecrow looks further on in perspective and it jars again.
Taken together with a lack of extras, particularly in Lothlorien and potholes where scenes have been deleted it makes the viewer jumpy.
Very odd. Smacks of a film run by accountants rather than being under the strong hand of producer/director.

[Gerbil]

Originally posted by bropous
Gerbil, I think the point-of-view is from the east-by-northeast, looking pretty much directly towards Mount Doom across Minas Tirith. From this viewpoint, it is pretty possible Osgiliath is just out of shot to the left.

Nope, not possible in the slightest.
Osgiliath is almost directly in between Minas Tirith and Mount Doom. If you can see MT and MD, then you must be able to see what's in the middle.
But of course, Osgiliath probably won't be mentioned at all in films, so he most likely simply didn't bother with it.

[Gerbil]

[QUOTE]By the way . . . 5 viewings . . . aw, dammit, lucky . . ./QUOTE]
That reminds me - must go book a ticket to see it the seventh time this week. I think I'll see it 10 times and call it quits.
I think partly I'm now seeing it again and again just to see how many times I can do so before the novelty wears off cos I've never done anything like this before...

[Vardasoroniel]

Originally posted by Gerbil
Speaking of which, you should be able to see the ruins of Osgiliath between Minas Tirith and Mordor, but I checked in the film (fleeting few seconds of film that it is) and you can't see anything.....

where was this scene? it must have been very fleeting.

i thought that osgiliath was utterly ruined, so would anything other than a ruinous landscape have been seen?