Kindles/Nooks

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by inked

For all the rampant political correctness by certain 'Mooters, there is a blatant disregard for future generations on this thread that even I find DISTURBING!

I know, I was gonna say... it's rather irresponsible to say that you don't care about future generations. What if your parents or grandparents had said that about you?

But I disagree that anything on old machines would automatically be lost. Texts that people value will be transferred to newer data storage systems, and we're more than capable of replicating old technology if we really need to 'get at' something on an old system.

I also disagree that marginal notes would be lost... after all, it's likely that you will soon be able to go in and directly modify the content. Or the author might even be able to go in. Particularly for educational tests, an e-reader would make updating, correcting, etc. much easier to do. Rather than needing marginal notes, we could just go in and fix what was mistaken or add the notes we need to the actual text .

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I know, I was gonna say... it's rather irresponsible to say that you don't care about future generations. What if your parents or grandparents had said that about you?

I didn't get any cool old books from them; they might as well have.

[EllethValatari]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I am not a person who loves a book just for the feel of a book in my hands, I love books purely for the stories and information they contain.

I wonder, though, is the information contained in the electronic form of a book different than that in a material book? In other words, does the text's form have an affect on it's influence?

I believe that because the information in an e-book is temporary, it will be temporary to our minds. One can easily switch the page of an electronic book, download a new story, or delete one. When you turn the page of a material book, however, the previous page is still there. When you are finished reading the book, it goes back to your shelf or to the library; it remains existing, accessible, and the same. The story cannot be replaced. The information is its own. When you read an e-book, it's disposition has an affect on you, whether you realize it or not. You are in control of the information. You can replace and delete it.

But even when you burn a paper book it's still there. There is something material, something independent of your control; information you cannot delete. And there are others like it.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

You are probably on to something with the form affecting its influence. My inner pomo says you can't divorce anything from its context, and our own appropriations to and reactions of something are nuanced with infinite subtlety by circumstances, expectations, etc. too many-splendored to be exhaustively accounted for.

However, I have to say, I think the temporary/permanent thing does not work. Generally speaking, deleted items remain, in some form, on the drive from which they were deleted, and are rather more retrievable than the words on a charred page, so that the ebook would actually be more permanent.

[EllethValatari]

I hope I'm on to something. I've been noting little tid-bits here and there when I think about the topic and finally drew up the courage to post them.

I agree with you, GW, in a way. But do you not find it ironic that, in an age where the amount of information accessible doubles every second, the amount we are able to retain has decreased.

The information in an e-book is available, but not permanent.

[EllethValatari]

Anyone get a Kindle or any other e-book for Christmas?

[Insidious Rex]

Yep. Seems like everyone in my family did... Dont know how much Ill use mine though. I already have like 30 books I own that I havent started or finished yet. So no need to buy more right now. Although it seems like it would be useful for getting books that you would likely not get at more expensive book prices and also for reading when traveling light. And hopefully someday text books will become common place electronically and you wont be held hostage by the ridiculous exorbitant prices that you have to pay for text books currently. Thats assuming the electronic book folks can crack the text book mafia who is in cahoots with the schools to force kids to spend hundreds of dollars for the same book every year by adding three words and calling it a "new edition" that you must have to take the course...

[Grey_Wolf]

In many ways this enthusiasm for things digital might just backfire when people figure out that ones and zeros can easily be deleted. Paperbooks may be burnt, text worn out, covers damaged etc, but it has been shown, time and again, that printed material has a longer life than any computorized information.

Ease of access for everyone is the main reason stated for the introduction of electronic books. That is all good and well. The next generation will not know what it was like to hold a new printed book in their hands. The very real feeling of paper underneath your fingers, the more alive and inspiring knowledge that the text has been printed with a bit more care than any other media, imho, far and wide surpasses the flat, unyielding and dead screen with its digitalized text.

[Draken]

Yes all very nice and shiny. But I'll file any predictions about the death of books alongside "paperless office", "cash-free society", "a meal in a pill" and "everyone will have a personal gyrocopter"...

[Insidious Rex]

Wheres my jet pack!

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by EllethValatari

This is a very controversial topic in my classroom, so I thought I might bring it up here.

Are electronic books bad?
Should they even be considered books? If so, explain.
If not, explain, and are they missing part of the essence of a true book? Should we use them, or should we buy actual, material books?

Any opinions?

I am cautious about these ebooks.

Are the books you buy yours? Can you give your copy to another person either as a loan or gift or sale? (Similar as with regular books)

Can someone else delete your copy without your permission? (Regardless of the reason.)

Can you print out a selected page or group of pages? (Not a big deal for me, but I am curious)
================================================== =====
With the ease that these ebooks can be changed, can someone or some group work to rewrite history or change what is considered true? (I am thinking along the lines of 1984 or Brave New World.)

This is more difficult to do with books.
================================================== =====
I think there could be many good uses. (School textbooks were one example mentioned) There does exist the possibility of misuse by some people.

Interesting question. If the price came down, I would consider getting one.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by mithrand1r

I am cautious about these ebooks.

Are the books you buy yours? Can you give your copy to another person either as a loan or gift or sale? (Similar as with regular books)

Can someone else delete your copy without your permission? (Regardless of the reason.)

Can you print out a selected page or group of pages? (Not a big deal for me, but I am curious)
================================================== =====
With the ease that these ebooks can be changed, can someone or some group work to rewrite history or change what is considered true? (I am thinking along the lines of 1984 or Brave New World.)

This is more difficult to do with books.
================================================== =====
I think there could be many good uses. (School textbooks were one example mentioned) There does exist the possibility of misuse by some people.

Interesting question. If the price came down, I would consider getting one.

Other interesting questions to me:

* How durable are they? We never like to drop our books, but what happens when you drop your Kindle?

* Can something bad happen to the electronic information over time? Can the drive crash and the information be lost? When might it be outdated? Etc?

* Is it harder on our eyes to spend even MORE time reading off a screen, as opposed to reading off a page of paper?

[Tessar]

* Is it harder on our eyes to spend even MORE time reading off a screen, as opposed to reading off a page of paper?

I believe they do something different to the screen... it's not a typical LCD display from what I've heard. It might not be as rough on your eyes.

Found out something interesting... a friend of mine downloaded his music theory textbook onto a kindle, and apparently it's been super helpful because he can make notes "in" the book from class, search for theory terms (like a "super" index), and it's easier for him to flip from exercise to exercise. Plus the theory books are pretty sizable and weigh a lot.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yeah, those readers have specially designed screens, intended to minimize problems with your eyes. They did figure people would spend a good deal of time looking at them.

[katya]

I bought a Kobo (the Borders e-reader) the other day, and I like it quite a lot. There are some books I'd rather have a hard copy of, but plenty of others I don't mind reading on the Kobo. I read Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass on it so far, and I enjoyed the experience. You don't have to hold the book open, and it's a lot easier to read lying horizontally with the e-reader. The screen is pretty nice to look at, not hard on the eyes at all (I don't like reading on a computer screen, if I can help it). That's the main thing I like about it, is that it's physically easier to read on it.

Also, I don't worry about losing the books because I didn't pay for any of the books on there and I don't plan on doing so in the future. (It came with 100 free classics.)

[katya]

So even though I have a Kobo now, I went to the library the other day to check out a copy of Sartre's "Nausea". However, the book, which is quite old and full of underlining and notes, is hard to read, due to the text going too far into the middle crack part. So I downloaded it and put it on the Kobo. It is much nicer to see, I can read it at the gym, I don't have to worry about the shadows falling over the page. However, apparently there's no option to skip to a certain page? And since the book doesn't have chapters, here I am, scrolling through the pages, one by one, to get to the middle of the book. As long as they fix that in the next update I'm ok, but for now it's a big problem.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

The Libraries Didn't Burn
by Elaine Equi

despite books kindled in electronic flames.

The locket of bookish love
still opens and shuts.

But its words have migrated
to a luminous elsewhere.

Neither completely oral nor written —
a somewhere in between.

Then will oak, willow,
birch, and olive poets return
to their digital tribes —

trees wander back to the forest?

[Tessar]

That poem is freakin' excellent. O_o

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I was impressed.

[Acalewia]

Originally Posted by EllethValatari

Anyone get a Kindle or any other e-book for Christmas?

I got a Kindle for my birthday...

Originally Posted by Valandil

Other interesting questions to me:

* How durable are they? We never like to drop our books, but what happens when you drop your Kindle?

Probably wouldn't be pretty... XD

* Can something bad happen to the electronic information over time? Can the drive crash and the information be lost? When might it be outdated? Etc?

Good Question

* Is it harder on our eyes to spend even MORE time reading off a screen, as opposed to reading off a page of paper?

Actually I was worried about that myself. I have a Kindle Touch and the screen actually looks a bit like a book page. I have sat and read on it for hours without eyestrain.

Now mind you, even though I have a Kindle, I still buy actual books and I'm not going to replace the books I already have in favor of an electronic version. I love the smell of books