The Official Language Thread II

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by katya

ElemmÃ*rë-chan! Hisashiburi desu ne! Ogenki? Stil remember your Japanese?

Sukoshi omoidasu. Eh to, iie. Genki ja nai desu. Ruumumeito wa NEKKYO de KIRAI desu. Dakara, watashi wa byouki ni naru to omoimasu. Soshite, repooto o kakemasen.

Myeh. I'll put it in French so I can talk to other people too.

Ma camarade de chambre et FOLLE et je ne l'aime plus. Je pense que je deviens malade.

...et j'ai besoin d'écrire un dissertation mais je suis trop peinée.

[Elanor]

Earniel, don't you think there's a strong relationship between Dutch and Old/Middle English? For instance, the English used to write numbers like "four and twenty" and say things like "thereunder" and "hitherto", which Dutch still does. And of course there are lots of similarities in the way we make past tenses like break/broken (breken/gebroken) and sing/sung (zingen/gezongen) We even have remnants of prefixes like "ver-", "be-", and "ge-" occasionally.

When I was 2 years old, my family moved to Nijmegen and lived there for 2 years, and I spoke Dutch with the other kids in the creche. Then a few years ago I saw some classes at my university and decided to relearn it, and even had the chance to live in the Netherlands for a while. I think it was easier for me to relearn Dutch because I've read so much Shakespeare and Biblical English. Or maybe vice versa. It seems to me that they're pretty similar. One of my friends learned some Middle English and it sounded a lot like Dutch, with a funny accent. Could they be more similar than Dutch and German? (I don't know German, and I can only understand bits of it when written or when an English-speaker speaks it!)

I've also noticed that things like "ight", "eight", and "ought" in English become things like "icht", "echt", and "ocht" in Dutch. Every English spelling student complains about these, but doesn't know why we have them!

I'm guessing that they're just close cousins that have influenced each other a lot over the years. In America, the average person doesn't really think of our language as Germanic, especially with all the Latin/Greek/French influence on much of our "higher" vocabulary and the Spanish that is coming into popular use now. But I definitely think the language has the same root as Dutch.

[Earniel]

I was always told by some of my friends who studie(d) germanic languages that Dutch and Old English are indeed very much alike. In fact they went to name some books, like the Canterbury Tales I believe, which in their original old language should be more readable for Dutch-speaking people than Englishmen. I have yet to put it to the test, though.

There are indeed a lot of simularities between Dutch and English. Like the word 'angst' for one. The letter-combination seems very uncommon for English but not so for Dutch, so I had always assumed it must be Dutch in origin. Although now I suppose it is more likely German in origin. The German and the Dutch word for it are identical in any case. Dutch and German are in my experience very much alike. We also have that 'cht' you mentioned. I always believed that you could get by in Germany by speaking Dutch with a German accent!

I've also heard that in the time of William the Conqueror a substantial number of Flemish people migrated with him to Britain. But I do not know whether that was able to put a stamp on the English language. I frankly doubt it since the Flemish of then should be reasonably different from today's Dutch.

There have been long-time trade relationships (up until Napoleonic times IIRC) between Flanders and England to so it is not impossible that some words were exchanged at that time. Especially words having to do with the trade, which was mainly about Flemish fabric if I'm not mistaken.

Then again, it is difficult to find out who borrowed from who in the first place! Dutch borrowed quite some words from French and German, it is not illogical that we borrowed from the English as well.

[Linaewen]

Earniel, don't you think there's a strong relationship between Dutch and Old/Middle English? For instance, the English used to write numbers like "four and twenty" and say things like "thereunder" and "hitherto", which Dutch still does. And of course there are lots of similarities in the way we make past tenses like break/broken (breken/gebroken) and sing/sung (zingen/gezongen) We even have remnants of prefixes like "ver-", "be-", and "ge-" occasionally.

IIRC, German's like that too. Well, the 'four and twenty' and the 'thereunder' bits, as well as the prefixes.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

There are indeed a lot of simularities between Dutch and English. Like the word 'angst' for one. The letter-combination seems very uncommon for English but not so for Dutch, so I had always assumed it must be Dutch in origin. Although now I suppose it is more likely German in origin.

You're right, it is actually German in origin. But let's pretend it's Dutch, shall we?
Perhaps these are cognates between the Western Germanic languages. It's not surprising to see such similiarities. Maybe English just evolved more from Middle English than Dutch has from ... Middle Dutch? In that sense anyway. English nowadays isn't that Germanic anymore, compared to the other Germanic languages, because of all our Romance words.

Oi, Eärniel, are you just going to ignore my questions about French indefinitely?

[Elanor]

You're making me want to learn German, and I don't have time! j/k

Lots of people are surprised when I tell them how much Dutch and English have in common. At least in the roots, the words I've always considered to be the backbone of English.

[Linaewen]

No, no, you SHOULD learn German! Drop everything else! Doooo ittttt!!
Yeah, I'm always in that plight. I can't really do languages now except for Indonesian and English. Sigh.

I can so see you falling over yourself with excitement when you find even more similarities learning German.

Lots of people are surprised when I tell them how much Dutch and English have in common. At least in the roots, the words I've always considered to be the backbone of English.

Maybe because they don't realise they're both Germanic languages? I don't know about where you live, but people here know verrrrry little about languages or linguistics. Before I got into languages, I don't think I even knew they were of the same language family. "The Netherlands? Oh, they're the ones who sailed over here and pretty much managed to miss the WHOLE huge continent and landed on a few, obscure islands instead."

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Linaewen

You're right, it is actually German in origin. But let's pretend it's Dutch, shall we?

Gee, I'm sorry that - being a Dutch-speaking person - I think of Dutch firstly when I see a simularity. Just because I may be able to find my way in four languages, doesn't mean I hafta know how they evolved as well. So FNE to you.

Oi, Eärniel, are you just going to ignore my questions about French indefinitely?

Wha? Questions, what questions? What French questions could I possibly answer, being Flemish and all that jazz... *checks thread* Oh those, clear forget about those....

Originally Posted by Linaewen

How often is French spoken in Flanders? How much of your TV is in French? Curious.

Couldn't say really about the first one. Being Flemish I'm rather enclined to say: not a bloody lot. But that'd be probably wish-full thinking. There are several places, near the language border (that runs straight through Belgium) where they still talk French and probably always will. And around Brussels of course. The Walons are pretty eager to have French recognized as a minority in Flanders because they'd get a lot more nifty benefits, which I (as a biased, but not too militant Flamingant) don't think they deserve. Oh yes, because we're so repressing them. *grumbles*

TV is a bit of a mess. I can't even say that we have a national broadcaster since they're split in a French and a Flemish one so technically they're regional channels because they are organised on the level of the regions Wallonia and Flanders. But when I would say regional channels it would seem like they're these tiny small scale TV channels which they are not. We have those too, about one per province.

(So I usually call them national channels when talking to foreigners anyway.)

The regional French channel is called RTBF and two regional Flemish ones are called één and Canvas (for the moment because één, the bloody bastard, has been changing its name at least twice in the last 5 years. To make it more confusing Canvas is called Ketnet before 20.00u because they broadcast children TV then). In Flanders there are also a few commercial channels but één and Canvas are funded by the government. I'm unsure just how the Walons channels are ordered because I barely watch them.

But at my home we can receive the three French channels from France as well, and as well as those from the Netherlands.

Still with me?

Oh and seriously you don't want to learn German. I pretty much hated the language in school. Those cases will drive you nuts, trust me. And then when you know Dutch a lot of the German words sounds oh-so-familiar but when you start to rely on that... BANG! Suddenly the German word is something rediculously different that the obvious Dutch word.

[Elanor]

Sadly, I will probably never learn German, unless I marry some German dude or something. I wish I could learn every language, but I don't want to put in the work to do it!

I have a friend from Aruba, and I met lots of folks from Curacao and Surinam when I was in Rotterdam. Have you ever heard their languages? They're cute. My Aruban friend once rapped in Papiamento for me and some other people. It was awesome.

[Linaewen]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Gee, I'm sorry that - being a Dutch-speaking person - I think of Dutch firstly when I see a simularity. Just because I may be able to find my way in four languages, doesn't mean I hafta know how they evolved as well. So FNE to you.

I'm the same, though. I tend to think pretty much all the English-looking words in Indo (and there are a LOT) are from English, but there are a number of Dutch ones, e.g. polisi (police), kualitas (quality), telepon (telephone), bis (bus), kopi (coffee), rokok (cigarette), universitas (university), kantor (office), wortel (carrot), wastafel (washbasin), and resleting (zipper).
Anyway, didn't mean to come across like that.

Wha? Questions, what questions? What French questions could I possibly answer, being Flemish and all that jazz... *checks thread* Oh those, clear forget about those....

That's ok. I didn't think you'd ignore me. ^^

Still with me?

Ja! Dank je for that! Belgium's COOL. Are you Flemish people also eager to be officially recognised as a minority in Wallonia?

Oh and seriously you don't want to learn German. I pretty much hated the language in school. Those cases will drive you nuts, trust me. And then when you know Dutch a lot of the German words sounds oh-so-familiar but when you start to rely on that... BANG! Suddenly the German word is something rediculously different that the obvious Dutch word.

I already started. I love the language and the music, so I'm going to learn it. It's probably the most useful Germanic language after English, and I'm eager to learn another of my beloved Germanic languages.
I know about the cases. I will undoubtedly complain about them when I learn them seriously, but I don't mind. I already memorised them earlier this year, it's the thinking about which case to use that takes me agggeeesss. But that's ok. I tend to find languages frustrating and hard often, so I'm just going to have to tolerate that as a language enthusiast. Actually, I 've never learnt any languages that are inflected for tense etc (though English also has that), so that'll be an interesting experience.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Elanor

I have a friend from Aruba, and I met lots of folks from Curacao and Surinam when I was in Rotterdam. Have you ever heard their languages? They're cute. My Aruban friend once rapped in Papiamento for me and some other people. It was awesome.

I think I've heard them once or twice. Cute, exotic accent too.

Originally Posted by Linaewen

Anyway, didn't mean to come across like that.

No worries, mate. I was just teasing.

Ja! Dank je for that! Belgium's COOL. Are you Flemish people also eager to be officially recognised as a minority in Wallonia?

No, because most Flemish people seem to learn French when they move over there. (And probably mostly not because if we'd ask, the Walons would immediatly demand it too and we just don't want to give them the opportunity.)

There are also Flemish villages at the other side of the language border that have been by tradition Flemish but since their rights on their language (like being helped in government buildings in their own language ect) is protected by our language laws, they seem content most of the time. The French-speaking people that live just on our side of the barrier have the same garantueed rights. But they do seem to complain more, but not with more reason. Actually, mostly, I think Wallonia complains for them.

Of course there are probably more French-speaking people that don't know Dutch in Flanders than there are the other way around. Mainly thanks to Brussels that had to be made in a region of its own in the very heart of Flanders. It has been mostly French-speaking for a long time, due to historical reasons but it still has a large number of Flemish-speaking people too. If anyone should be recognized as an 'oppressed' language minority, it's them. But then again, if I'm not mistaken, the language laws cover them as well.

Recently Europe told Brussels, after a complaint, that the hospitals there (which are mostly in French) should be able to provide for the Flemish people as well because Flemish people who need aid often can't be helped there in their own language. A violation of Brussel's supposed bilingual status. That reprimand didn't go down well with the Walons of course , that's when they started to bleat about the recognition of their 'minority' again, if I'm not mistaken.

Well, I suppose my bias is somewhat obvious in these matters. So it were best you'd take that into account. The Flanders-Wallonia situation is so darn complicated and has gone on for pretty much 3/4 of the last century that it's hard to see it neutrally, which I'll readily admit I do not on all issues. Were I a Walon I'd probably be giving you all sorts of dirt of Flanders right now about so cruelly oppressing us. Of course had I been Walon, the chances we'd have met on the internet would have been considerably smaller...

I already started. I love the language and the music, so I'm going to learn it. It's probably the most useful Germanic language after English, and I'm eager to learn another of my beloved Germanic languages.

Well, good luck to you then.

[Linaewen]

Thank you for your lovely, detailed explanations! Wonderful! You know, I just realised that we have a language debate here as well (well according to those current affairs shows.) Many people come here, with precious little knowledge of English, and apparently they're a hazard when driving because they can't understand the road signs (But road signs have pictures?...) Anyway, there are some that are calling for immigrants to pass English exams before they come here.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Recently Europe told Brussels, after a complaint, that the hospitals there (which are mostly in French) should be able to provide for the Flemish people as well because Flemish people who need aid often can't be helped there in their own language. A violation of Brussel's supposed bilingual status.

Really? Wow! And that's your capital city as well! That's kinda disturbing. Don't you have lots of interpreters in your hospitals?

Well, I suppose my bias is somewhat obvious in these matters. So it were best you'd take that into account.

Oh, but Dutch speakers are better than French ones, anyway.

The Flanders-Wallonia situation is so darn complicated and has gone on for pretty much 3/4 of the last century that it's hard to see it neutrally, which I'll readily admit I do not on all issues.

Oh, only that long? Ok, that's a very long time, but I would've thought it would've been around for longer. I have to admit I'm very ignorant of Belgian history...

Were I a Walon I'd probably be giving you all sorts of dirt of Flanders right now about so cruelly oppressing us. Of course had I been Walon, the chances we'd have met on the internet would have been considerably smaller...

Why's that?

Well, good luck to you then.

Thank you! I'll learn Nederlands someday too. ^^...that's not really a good thing for you, because I have a tendency to ask a LOT of questions from people who know languages I'm learning. I'm sure I'll drive you insane.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Linaewen

Many people come here, with precious little knowledge of English, and apparently they're a hazard when driving because they can't understand the road signs (But road signs have pictures?...) Anyway, there are some that are calling for immigrants to pass English exams before they come here.

I suppose it may have something to do that many countries have differences in their road signs. But you know, it does seem odd. A language doesn't change pictures as far as I know...

Really? Wow! And that's your capital city as well! That's kinda disturbing. Don't you have lots of interpreters in your hospitals?

Not just the capital, it's the third region of this country as well, with it's own regional government and regulations. But frankly, Europe is reprimanding us about ALL the time, we're really bad students in some fields. And goddamn slow in ratifying and implementing European regulations. So nothing new there either.

But we've had several visits of someone of the European administration over our language problems in the past. So it really isn't that strange. But this one is about the first one that I can remember that can be chalked up as a win for the Flemish side.

We've had a few Swiss people over here who did a half-arsed job at understanding the language situation: they spend a single day talking to the prime minister and then going on to declare that the Walons are suppressed by the Flemish majority. Shame on us. That had quite a lot of people going "WTF?! What dope are they on?".

Oddly enough the Swiss, despite their supposed neutrality, have shown a bias for the Walons in our situation on several other occasions as well. [EDIT: I was mistaken, I didn't see why they should be so biased since French was no language of theirs, or so I thought. I checked to see that French IS a national language in Switserland. It is also is a small minority language (17%) over there under German (70%), which I suppose explains their bias to French in the Belgian situation. What they apparently forgot is that the equation in Belgium is 57% Flemish and 43% French.] There are some other stories, but I won't bother you with them now. Suffice to say the whole situation witht he Swiss sort of boggles the mind. Which is why we are glad that a) this European person was not another Swiss, b) she actually did some research and c) told Brussels off for not opholding the bilinguality.

As far as I know they don't work with interpretors in the Brussels' hospitals but the staff and nurses are expected to be bilingual.

Oh, only that long? Ok, that's a very long time, but I would've thought it would've been around for longer. I have to admit I'm very ignorant of Belgian history...

Hey, it's not like I'm such a dictionary on my own history either. So no worries. Tiny country in big world. I don't really expect people to know anything about us, except hopefully that we house much of the European government. (Although - naturally - I get rather pissed when they then start using my country's name as a swear word or making wild, unchecked accusations about it.)

I've been told the conflict has gone on a lot longer, that Walons and Flemish were already two different demographical groups from before Ceasar's days and that's why we basically don't get along so well. There are definitely a lot more differences between the two halves of Belgium than language alone.

I suppose the actual language debate started somewhere at the end of the 19th century, when people started clamoring to have also Dutch spoken in court rooms, higher education and other government services because the poorer Dutch-speaking population didn't know French and therefore barely had access to those services. You could say oppression to that.

The first acchievements towards language equality were slow. French still had the monopoly. Brussels was increasingly frenchifing, Wallonia remained completely French and Dutch was merely recognized as second language in Flanders. French still was the one and only official Belgian language. At the turn of that century Dutch had finally acchieved equal language status, but only in name.

In WW-I the majority of the soldiers were Dutch-speaking whereas the vast majority of the officers was Walon and the language used was French. In disputes Dutch-speaking soldiers barely had a change to defend themselves.

But it was in the Interbellum that IMO the French-Dutch debate really started took final shape. The Dutch-Flemish movement started to be something to reckoned with. Around 1930, despite continuous opposition from the French-speaking people, Dutch alone became Flanders' official language. Here the language dispute became firmly linked to territory: French in Walonia, Dutch in Flanders and both in Brussels, (which continued to frenchify nevertheless). That's why I said the debate, in its present form, really started about 3/4 century ago.

Why's that?

Because the chances of me knowing languages aside from French would have been considerably smaller. Dutch is a better basis to start learning other languages from and we do so more as well. Francophones seem much less inclined to study languages aside from French. It is quite possible I would never have made it to the Entmoot then.

Thank you! I'll learn Nederlands someday too. ^^...that's not really a good thing for you, because I have a tendency to ask a LOT of questions from people who know languages I'm learning. I'm sure I'll drive you insane.

O.o Anyway, since you plan to take on German, you moved a lot closer to Nederlands as well. And I have answered already many of your questions. Seen that I am still (more or less) sane (well, not that much less than any other person ) I think I will be able to handle.

[Linaewen]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I suppose it may have something to do that many countries have differences in their road signs. But you know, it does seem odd. A language doesn't change pictures as far as I know...

Oh, they have to pass a driving test first, of course, but it can be completed in any of the languages they have translations for. I do see some people's points that it may be hazardous having people on the roads who don't understand English, but seriously, forcing people to pass English exams before they're accepted into the country is ridiculous.

Which is why we are glad that a) this European person was not another Swiss, b) she actually did some research and c) told Brussels off for not opholding the bilinguality.

So what's Brussels doing about it now? It's interesting learning all this stuff about your country; it seems so foreign and odd since we don't really have anything like that here. Not in terms of language, anyway. The idea of someone berating us for not being bilingual is a bit funny. Having said that, I do think we could do with some more translations around everywhere, rather than everything being in English. But we have so many migrant groups it's a bit difficult doing that. In Queensland, however, where there are lots of Japanese tourists, they have some signs in Japanese.
Melbourne will probably eventually become bilingual in Chinese and English. When you go to the city, Mandarin is heard so often because Melbourne University is full of Chinese students.

As far as I know they don't work with interpretors in the Brussels' hospitals but the staff and nurses are expected to be bilingual.

What is the usual level of language profiency in French for Flemish people, and the level of Flemish in Waloons? Do neither put much of an effort in learning the others' language because of the whole language issue?

I've been told the conflict has gone on a lot longer, that Walons and Flemish were already two different demographical groups from before Ceasar's days and that's why we basically don't get along so well. There are definitely a lot more differences between the two halves of Belgium than language alone.

And of course, language is tied in so intimately with one's cultural identity that it's no wonder there's such an issue with it (other than pragmatic reasons.) Particularly in situations like Belgium's, where one language has a history of being the more prestigious, 'higher class' one, whilst the other is for the 'common' people. (I guess this somewhat is mirrored by English, where the Germanic words are the more informal, less 'educated' ones, compared to their French counterparts)

....In WW-I the majority of the soldiers were Dutch-speaking whereas the vast majority of the officers was Walon and the language used was French. In disputes Dutch-speaking soldiers barely had a change to defend themselves.

That kind of stuff is unfair indeed. Language barriers can't be underestimated, especially when one can't even defend oneself!

Because the chances of me knowing languages aside from French would have been considerably smaller. Dutch is a better basis to start learning other languages from and we do so more as well. Francophones seem much less inclined to study languages aside from French. It is quite possible I would never have made it to the Entmoot then.

Hehe, that's such a Francophone stereotype. I frequent a language forum where I think there are just as many French speakers as Dutch, so that's not necessarily true. Though I'm sure the reputation exists with good reason.

O.o Anyway, since you plan to take on German, you moved a lot closer to Nederlands as well. And I have answered already many of your questions. Seen that I am still (more or less) sane (well, not that much less than any other person ) I think I will be able to handle.

Yes, you've undoubtely answered many of my questions articulately and with detail, but those weren't so much Dutch questions. No, you haven't yet had to tolerate my endless inundation of questions about your language, and since it's related to languages, it's often quite confusing and makes you think. Poor people who help me.

[Andúril]

I took a drive out to the Taal Monument in Paarl (about 45 minutes out of Cape Town). Taal is Afrikaans for language. Apparently this is the only language monument in the world (although I'm not so sure about that). Got some pics.

The three columns to the left of the entrance symbolise the Western European languages and cultures. The main column symbolises the origin and development of Afrikaans. It stands in water to signify that the language needs care in order to grow. The column next to the main column symbolises the Republic of South Africa. The wall on the main steps represents the important contribution of the Malay language and culture.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Linaewen

So what's Brussels doing about it now?

Hire more bilingual staff, methinks. Or get fined.

The idea of someone berating us for not being bilingual is a bit funny.

In essense it does seem rather funny. But if you have a region that by law must cater to both Dutch-speaking and French-speaking inhabitants you can't go around it. Frankly if we hadn't had these language laws I always think the language conflict could have turned rather violent and bloody.

What is the usual level of language profiency in French for Flemish people, and the level of Flemish in Waloons? Do neither put much of an effort in learning the others' language because of the whole language issue?

Mostly going by feeling on this one.

In Flanders French is mandatory in most, if not all schools. Although I don't know how long that has been. I started to get French in class from my 11 years on all the way through high school. Although it depends on which kind of high school you go to. In the common kind of high school (called ASO) French is always given to my knowledge. I don't think French is given in the same capacity or frequency in the technological or special high school (called TSO and BSO).

(As for the other languages: English is also commonly given in ASO, I started getting it when I was 13. I started German at 17 but German lessons in high school is far rarer than French or English. It all depends again if you're taking studies that focus more on languages or not.)

I think the effort to learn other languages is larger in Flanders because Dutch is an easier starting point and Flanders is also economically stronger, creating a larger demand for multilingual personnel. But that's my personal opinion. In Walonia one has this giant (well compared to us) country right next door where you can go for work and you don't even need to learn any other language.

I once read that in Walonia high school children are given the option between Dutch or English. Neither of the languages are mandatory. But as I said I only read it so I can't be certain. Personally I am convinced there should be at least a reasonable number of schools in Wallonia teaching Dutch nevertheless, especially near the language border. But perhaps not on the scale as French is given in Flanders.

Hehe, that's such a Francophone stereotype. I frequent a language forum where I think there are just as many French speakers as Dutch, so that's not necessarily true. Though I'm sure the reputation exists with good reason.

I usually try to steer away from stereotypes but I think there is some thruth in this one. That's why I said the chances of me learning another language then would have been smaller, not non-existant. You can never tell until you try it.

There are, I'm sure, a large number of Francophones who are proficient in other languages beside their mother tongue. I only think the number in Belgium is smaller compared to their Flemish counterparts.

No, you haven't yet had to tolerate my endless inundation of questions about your language, and since it's related to languages, it's often quite confusing and makes you think. Poor people who help me.

Ooookay, this is where I run and hide, isn't it?

Anduril, that's one impressive monument, your country must be very proud on its Afrikaans.

[Grey_Wolf]

There is this sign at the platforms which I infrequently visit or pass on my way.

It's really a warning.

Don't stand too close to the edge of the platform.

Ministry of Railways.

But I read it like this:

Don't stand too close to the edge of the platform, Ministry of Railways.

As if they're giving a telling too to a young child so that it won't be naughty.

[Nurvingiel]

Great pictures Andúril! I've sure never heard of any other language monument.

Canada has language laws too Eärniel, mainly because of our heritage as a balance between French and English. It's because of these laws that all government documents are in English and French, and many (depending on the department) government employees are bilingual. These laws also led to the opportunity for me to take French all throughout school and become completely fluent.
This, in turn, gave me skills at learning languages that let me learn some Swedish later.

Speaking of Swedish Grey_Wolf, what was the original railway sign?

Also, would you mind terribly correcting the grammar in this sentence:
Tack så jättemycket för att jobba riktigt!
What I'm trying to say is "Thank you very much for working really hard!"

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Great pictures Andúril! I've sure never heard of any other language monument.

Canada has language laws too Eärniel, mainly because of our heritage as a balance between French and English. It's because of these laws that all government documents are in English and French, and many (depending on the department) government employees are bilingual. These laws also led to the opportunity for me to take French all throughout school and become completely fluent.
This, in turn, gave me skills at learning languages that let me learn some Swedish later.

Speaking of Swedish Grey_Wolf, what was the original railway sign?

Also, would you mind terribly correcting the grammar in this sentence:
Tack så jättemycket för att jobba riktigt!
What I'm trying to say is "Thank you very much for working really hard!"

The original:

Stå ej för nära kanten på perrongen
Banverket

******************************

Banverket! Banverket! Vad har jag sagt om att stå för nära kanten! Fy på sig, banverket!


and the sentence:

Tack så mycket för att du jobbade på bra. Thank very much for you effort (which probably be the correct English sentence as well).

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf

The original:

Stå ej för nära kanten på perrongen
Banverket

******************************

Banverket! Banverket! Vad har jag sagt om att stå för nära kanten! Fy på sig, banverket!

Hehe. I actially understood all that except "Fy på sig". Banverket! Banverket! (the ministry?) What have I said about standing next to the railroad tracks? [bit I don't understand]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf

and the sentence:

Tack så mycket för att du jobbade på bra. Thank very much for you effort (which probably be the correct English sentence as well).

Actually in English it would be your effort. But thanks for fixing my Swedish. I really want to use the word "riktigt" though. Because it wasn't just a good effort, it was a gaint, awesome effort.

Thanks a lot GW.

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Hehe. I actially understood all that except "Fy på sig". Banverket! Banverket! (the ministry?) What have I said about standing next to the railroad tracks? [bit I don't understand]





Actually in English it would be your effort. But thanks for fixing my Swedish. I really want to use the word "riktigt" though. Because it wasn't just a good effort, it was a gaint, awesome effort.

Thanks a lot GW.

"Fy på sig" means shame on u

What I was trying to imitate was a parent giving a child a telling to. And that is why I wrote it that way.

So the child (i e the ministry) is told not to be naughty, i e, walking to close to the railroad tracks and does it anyway.

The correct Swedish sentence using "riktigt" would be "Tack så mycket. Det gjorde du riktigt bra." = Thanks a lot. You did a great job.