Lord Elronds Mistake - Page 2

The last sane person · 10-04-2005, 05:24 PM

True, though I highly doubt Elrond in the same line of "babysitting" would have allowed it to just SIT. I mean, yeah, Izzle was strong, he lost lots, la de da, but the other elves knew that the thing would bring them all doom if not destroyed. They forsaw a returing of the king, of the hobbits and of the hell that would ensue, I still think Elrond was merely a wuss about it. Waning though the elves were, they had some power to enforce the destruction with at least a vote. Elrond didnt even have to kill Izzle in order to destroy the ring! Just use some of those ancient Noldo Mud Wrestling tricks.....

olorin hamfast · 10-04-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordis

According to Olmer Elrond DID kill Isildur later,

on the Gladden Fields. He couldn't do it before the whole army of Men. So he waited and followed him and ambushed him at the Gladden. There were Elves, not Orcs there!

" He(Isildur) leapt into the waters, but the ring slipped from his fingeras he swam, and then the orcs saw him and killed him with arrows."

Lotesse · 10-04-2005, 06:15 PM

Thanks 4 the clarification, Olorin, 'cause I'm sure no one here in Entmoot knew that!

Just playin'.

olorin hamfast · 10-04-2005, 06:18 PM

True. The ring has greater power in the more powerful hand: it takes one with great power to wield it, as why it provided Frodo, Bilbo and Gollum marginal power when they bore it. In the hand of someone with great power, the ring would perform powerful feats. I think Elrond was daunted by Isildurs amazing pecs: the ring made them look bigger.

Gordis · 10-04-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olorin hamfast

" He(Isildur) leapt into the waters, but the ring slipped from his fingeras he swam, and then the orcs saw him and killed him with arrows."

No need to "quote Tolkien at me", olorin hamfast!

I am not going to defend Olmer's theory here. I was only remembering the fun we all had discussing it in the thread
Why did the Ring betray Isildur?
It was one of the best threads on the Moot.

olorin hamfast · 10-04-2005, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordis

No need to "quote Tolkien at me", olorin hamfast!

I am not going to defend Olmer's theory here. I was only remembering the fun we all had discussing it in the thread
Why did the Ring betray Isildur?
It was one of the best threads on the Moot.

Whos Olmer anyway? Evryone else quotes it , Dont expect em to stop now

The last sane person · 10-04-2005, 08:57 PM

A radical and fun Mooter who came up with these weird Lotr theories that set everyone abuzz. We think that HE has the one ring, seeing as he dissapears at will.

Lotesse · 10-04-2005, 09:02 PM

I know, he was the bomb. I really wish he'd come back 'round here, one of these days. I have a feeling he just might. Can't WAIT!

olorin hamfast · 10-04-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The last sane person

A radical and fun Mooter who came up with these weird Lotr theories that set everyone abuzz. We think that HE has the one ring, seeing as he dissapears at will.

lol thats a funny one lol

The last sane person · 10-04-2005, 09:05 PM

Alas, we all sing a lament for lost Olmer. Or at least, those of us that can carry a tune...

I still think Elrond could have swiped the ring in an eyeblink if he broke out his noldor mud wrestling...There are fewer things scarier than elf lords, in thongs, mud wrestling...

olorin hamfast · 10-04-2005, 09:12 PM

Both Gil galad and Elendil were slain that day on the slopes of Orodruin. I could see that Isildur in his fury would defiantely like to hold on to the ring and learn its tricks. But Elrond should be ashamed of himself. he knew maybe better than most of the Decievers mechanations. youd think the elves would start packing and head to the grey havens right after he started callin the ring "precious'. Gollum did a way better job of protecting the ring from Mordor. I wonder if Saruman was around then and what his take on this was

The last sane person · 10-04-2005, 09:46 PM

Well yeah, the white council was formed by galadriel, and it says that Sauruman had argued vehemently that the ring was lost and la de da, but he was starting to secretly look for it.

Curubethion · 10-04-2005, 09:57 PM

Notice that in the movie, Elrond was on the very brink, while Isildur was by the door. Agent Sm-I mean Elrond would have had to race to catch him, and by that time Isildur would have turned invisible. Also, Isildur would have had the power of the Ring, and I think Elrond realized all of this. He sized up the situation and didn't go.

The last sane person · 10-04-2005, 10:16 PM

That is in movie verse thouugh, we are talking book wise. Appearently they were side by side at the brink. And in the movie, i thought that isildur walked past him....oh well, i never really watched the movies...

tolkienfan · 10-04-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olorin hamfast

Something occured to me whilst I was watching the New Line Version of LotR about a statement Lord Elrond made about the "Hearts of men", and how he saw the hearts of men fail;
" I was there that day"
He was with Isildur in the Chasm at Orodruin after the King had fallen and Isildur had cut the ring from the the Decievers hand.
"Cast it into the fire!" yelled Elrond
"No" and Isildur took the ring for himself, causing all sorts of problems for generations to come.
Why did Elrond not finish the job then by sticking a couple of elvish arrows into the greedy bastsard's back and kick Isildurs Bane into the fire for once and for all? Did he not fail the hearts of the Last Alliance? Im sure Mr Tolkien did not intend this to happen, as it wouldve cut short his royalties, but Lord Elrond wouldve properly served the efforts of the Last Alliance and put a quick and dirty end to the whole third age. Also, would we expect Samwise to the same to Mr Frodo when his moment of truth came that day in the bowels of the mountain of fire?!?

Even if he should have Sam would never push Frodo into the Crack of Doom. In the movie he even hauls him out.

***Earniel*** · 10-05-2005, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The last sane person

That is in movie verse thouugh, we are talking book wise. Appearently they were side by side at the brink. And in the movie, i thought that isildur walked past him....oh well, i never really watched the movies...

Actually, we're in the MOVIE forum, and if you look at the first post you'll see we're discussing a scene from the movie.

But I'm sure there are threads about it in the Book forum too if you wish to discuss it completely book-wise.
I particulary remember this one: Why wasn't the ring destroyed at the end of the second age?

The last sane person · 10-05-2005, 03:17 PM

*fizzle* Dangit, see, thats why I dont like it when people mix posts, some used both movie and book verse to explain...*wanders off into book forums*

olorin hamfast · 10-05-2005, 03:22 PM

This is no longer fun. Something in the tea mustve turned my stomach. Enjoy the last entry on my thread. Im off to get the virus out of my computer. Have fun at sunday school.

Lotesse · 10-05-2005, 03:24 PM

Goodbye then, and have fun in - well, wherever people like you go.

rohirrim TR · 10-05-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olorin hamfast

Have fun at sunday school.

why are you going to sunday school?? todays wensday

and on the topic, well it is just another case of "what if" i mean really they should have given the ring to gwaihir and he would have flown in a taken care of it, but then theres no story, there is really no answer for thread questions like "what if" it just messes you up

10-04-2005, 05:24 PM	#21
The last sane person The Black Númenórean Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,773	True, though I highly doubt Elrond in the same line of "babysitting" would have allowed it to just SIT. I mean, yeah, Izzle was strong, he lost lots, la de da, but the other elves knew that the thing would bring them all doom if not destroyed. They forsaw a returing of the king, of the hobbits and of the hell that would ensue, I still think Elrond was merely a wuss about it. Waning though the elves were, they had some power to enforce the destruction with at least a vote. Elrond didnt even have to kill Izzle in order to destroy the ring! Just use some of those ancient Noldo Mud Wrestling tricks..... __________________ Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

10-04-2005, 06:15 PM	#23
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Thanks 4 the clarification, Olorin, 'cause I'm sure no one here in Entmoot knew that! Just playin'. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

10-04-2005, 08:57 PM	#27
The last sane person The Black Númenórean Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,773	A radical and fun Mooter who came up with these weird Lotr theories that set everyone abuzz. We think that HE has the one ring, seeing as he dissapears at will. __________________ Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

10-04-2005, 09:02 PM	#28
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	I know, he was the bomb. I really wish he'd come back 'round here, one of these days. I have a feeling he just might. Can't WAIT! __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

10-04-2005, 09:05 PM	#30
The last sane person The Black Númenórean Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,773	Alas, we all sing a lament for lost Olmer. Or at least, those of us that can carry a tune... I still think Elrond could have swiped the ring in an eyeblink if he broke out his noldor mud wrestling...There are fewer things scarier than elf lords, in thongs, mud wrestling... __________________ Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

10-04-2005, 06:18 PM	#24
olorin hamfast Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In your box Posts: 44	True. The ring has greater power in the more powerful hand: it takes one with great power to wield it, as why it provided Frodo, Bilbo and Gollum marginal power when they bore it. In the hand of someone with great power, the ring would perform powerful feats. I think Elrond was daunted by Isildurs amazing pecs: the ring made them look bigger.

10-04-2005, 09:12 PM	#31
olorin hamfast Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In your box Posts: 44	Gil Galad and Elendil Both Gil galad and Elendil were slain that day on the slopes of Orodruin. I could see that Isildur in his fury would defiantely like to hold on to the ring and learn its tricks. But Elrond should be ashamed of himself. he knew maybe better than most of the Decievers mechanations. youd think the elves would start packing and head to the grey havens right after he started callin the ring "precious'. Gollum did a way better job of protecting the ring from Mordor. I wonder if Saruman was around then and what his take on this was

10-04-2005, 09:46 PM	#32
The last sane person The Black Númenórean Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,773	Well yeah, the white council was formed by galadriel, and it says that Sauruman had argued vehemently that the ring was lost and la de da, but he was starting to secretly look for it. __________________ Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

10-04-2005, 09:57 PM	#33
Curubethion Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: College! Posts: 1,976	Notice that in the movie, Elrond was on the very brink, while Isildur was by the door. Agent Sm-I mean Elrond would have had to race to catch him, and by that time Isildur would have turned invisible. Also, Isildur would have had the power of the Ring, and I think Elrond realized all of this. He sized up the situation and didn't go. __________________ Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan)

10-04-2005, 10:16 PM	#34
The last sane person The Black Númenórean Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,773	That is in movie verse thouugh, we are talking book wise. Appearently they were side by side at the brink. And in the movie, i thought that isildur walked past him....oh well, i never really watched the movies... __________________ Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

10-05-2005, 03:17 PM	#37
The last sane person The Black Númenórean Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,773	fizzle Dangit, see, thats why I dont like it when people mix posts, some used both movie and book verse to explain...wanders off into book forums __________________ Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

10-05-2005, 03:22 PM	#38
olorin hamfast Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In your box Posts: 44	This is no longer fun. Something in the tea mustve turned my stomach. Enjoy the last entry on my thread. Im off to get the virus out of my computer. Have fun at sunday school.

10-05-2005, 03:24 PM	#39
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Goodbye then, and have fun in - well, wherever people like you go. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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