Theories on the Identity of the Witch-King - Page 2

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-24-2005, 08:11 AM

Regarding WK challenging Gandalf, he didn't really have that much to lose. He couldn't be destroyed unless his Ring was. If Gandalf did deliver what would be a killer blow, he would return to Mordor, his spirit withered. There Sauron would 'rechrge' it with the Ring and he could return again a few weeks later.

Gordis · 04-30-2008, 02:56 PM

Love this old thread.

I have found some new facts important for Olmer's theory - one more proof for it, in fact.

We have now Hammond and Scull's very detailed chronology of all Tolkien writings. According to H&S (Companion and Chronology) "The Line of Elros" in UT is dated 'probably 1960' according to the former, and in Chronology under the entry for March 1960: '-- Other works are probably contemporary with Aldarion and Erendis (...) *The Line of Elros: Kings of Númenor...

So, you see, "the Line of Elros" is likely written before Tolkien started to revise the “Tale of Years” for the Second edition of LOTR published in 1966.

The Second edition still contained the entry "2251 Tar-Atanamir takes the sceptre. Rebellion and division of the Númenoreans begins. About this time the Nazgûl or Ringwraiths, slaves of the Nine Rings, first appear."

And the "Line of Elros" gave 2251 (corrected at an unknown time to 2221) as the time of Atanamir's death.

How could Tolkien miss this "mistake" (as Christopher calls it) in the Second Edition while he already had the "Line of Elros" written?
Seems Tolkien has indeed extended the time of Tar Ciryatan's rule in the Tale of Years quite deliberately!

08-24-2005, 08:11 AM	#1
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Regarding WK challenging Gandalf, he didn't really have that much to lose. He couldn't be destroyed unless his Ring was. If Gandalf did deliver what would be a killer blow, he would return to Mordor, his spirit withered. There Sauron would 'rechrge' it with the Ring and he could return again a few weeks later. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

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04-30-2008, 02:56 PM	#2
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	Love this old thread. I have found some new facts important for Olmer's theory - one more proof for it, in fact. We have now Hammond and Scull's very detailed chronology of all Tolkien writings. According to H&S (Companion and Chronology) "The Line of Elros" in UT is dated 'probably 1960' according to the former, and in Chronology under the entry for March 1960: '-- Other works are probably contemporary with Aldarion and Erendis (...) The Line of Elros: Kings of Númenor... So, you see, "the Line of Elros" is likely written before* Tolkien started to revise the “Tale of Years” for the Second edition of LOTR published in 1966. The Second edition still contained the entry "2251 Tar-Atanamir takes the sceptre. Rebellion and division of the Númenoreans begins. About this time the Nazgûl or Ringwraiths, slaves of the Nine Rings, first appear." And the "Line of Elros" gave 2251 (corrected at an unknown time to 2221) as the time of Atanamir's death. How could Tolkien miss this "mistake" (as Christopher calls it) in the Second Edition while he already had the "Line of Elros" written? Seems Tolkien has indeed extended the time of Tar Ciryatan's rule in the Tale of Years quite deliberately!