Today's nations in LOTR - Page 2

Elvellon · 03-18-2002, 10:17 AM

The Shire – rural England, duh

Arnor – North-western Europe. Once united under the Carolingian Empire, then separated in rival kingdoms. The rivalry among these kingdoms almost led to the ruin of the region, as it did in Arnor.

Gondor – Southern Europe. Once the heart of powerful empires, its role dwindled with time. Here the culture of old Rome (Numenor) was partially preserved. For a long time the Iberian nations were the barrier between the peoples of North Africa (Harad) and Europe and the Bizantinean empire did the same with the East.
The land and sea empires of Portugal and Spain can also be compared with the empire of the ship-kings.

The Reunited Kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor – the European Union.

Harad – North Africa, divided in kingdoms, sometimes allied and friendly towards the European (Arnor & Gondor), sometimes their enemies.

Rohan – USA. Always getting involved in the wars of Gondor (as Europe), and in wars against the Shadow in the East. But don’t have frontiers with these regions. Its army is THE military force of late Third Age. The role of the ancestors of the Rohirrim in the Kin- strife can be compared with the USA role during WW II.

Mordor – the present enemy of the Free Peoples of the West. Whoever this may be at the time.

Lindon – must be a seafaring nation. Personally I can’t see them as Vikings, or acting as corsairs. Perhaps Portugal, since it was a nation that spent centuries methodically exploring the seas.

Imladris – a small, but pleasant enclave of the Free Peoples. I don’t se it as neutral, so I cannot compare it to Switzerland. Perhaps Luxemburg.

Lorien – make your guess.

Orcish Domains – certain football associations, dominated by Hooligans(orcs and trolls).

Brimvalir · 03-18-2002, 01:14 PM

Gondor = California
Bree = Nevada
Rivendell = Iowa
Rohan = Michigan

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-18-2002, 01:35 PM

I might have to disagree with Gondor as Cali. I'd say East coast for Gondor, definately. Dunno which, though.

afro-elf · 03-18-2002, 02:41 PM

Mirkwood the dense jungles of south america

dol guldor the drug cartels there

BeardofPants · 03-21-2002, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
I see gondor as the great britian.

The last remains of a great empire
Great warriors and cultured ( at least that's the image)

Arnor Canada

cold few people once apart of the empire

Rohan America

Cowboys who can fight

rivendell switzerland

everyone goes there for meetings

lindon scandinavia

they make good ships but are not really part of the world scence

the lonely mountian germany

great engineers and warlike

can't think the others at the moment

BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!! I could be a little biased here, but I think they all should be situated in New Zealand....

So flame me.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 03-21-2002, 11:50 PM

Mordor is the U.S.? Excuse me.

This may just become a heated thread.

GandalfTheWhite · 03-22-2002, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
I see gondor as the great britian.

The last remains of a great empire
Great warriors and cultured ( at least that's the image)

Arnor Canada

cold few people once apart of the empire

Rohan America

Cowboys who can fight

rivendell switzerland

everyone goes there for meetings

lindon scandinavia

they make good ships but are not really part of the world scence

the lonely mountian germany

great engineers and warlike

can't think the others at the moment

very interesting, i think that the lonely mountain could be russia as well maybe, and the elves seem to great to be from switzerland, i also think that sauron could be hitler and mordor the nazi empire

Cirdan · 03-22-2002, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Mordor is the U.S.? Excuse me.

This may just become a heated thread.

If we hadn't been limited to "Today's nations" I think Nazi Germany or the USSR would have been better candidates. I think it's the idea of a large monolithic militaristic power that brings to mind the US. Historically, however, the US has played the role of Gondor, maintaining vigilance against hegemonistic regimes like the Kaiser's Germany, Hitler's Germany, and the USSR.

The US of today does meddle quite a bit in the affairs of sovreign nations quite a bit. We use our money and power to bend foreign leaders to act other that they might on their own.

I think the comparison, as far as I can tell, is that within the context of LotR, there was no other forcep that could single handedly threaten an alliance of all the other forces except Mordor. They had help from allies in the south, but the main force was formidable just the same. Without the destruction of the ring the battle didn't look promising for the anti-Mordor alliance. If Sauron had got the one ring... fuggeddaboudit.

I'm going to cheat since I've gotten this far. My list is time independent.

Mordor- Nazi Germany (Melkor = Kaiser; Sauron = Hitler)
The Shire - pre-Industrial England (verdant countryside)
Gondor - The Roman Empire (ancient structures, roads, large influence)
Rohan - Napoleonic France (cavalry, elan, plebian army)
Rivendell - Vienna art, history
Mirkwood - The Balkans
Moria - Ottoman Empire (once great, collasped by decadence)
Harad - Carthaginians/Egyptians
Anfalas - Spain
Lorien - Denmark
Fangorn - Holland
Mirkwood - Scandinavia
Arnor - Babylon
Fangorn - Pre WWII US (sleeping giant)
sleep?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

EDIT: Gandalf , I was writing while you were posting, great minds... read Tolkien!

***Earniel*** · 03-22-2002, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Mordor is the U.S.? Excuse me. This may just become a heated thread.

The U.S. wouldn't perhaps have been my choice to put Mordor, but you've got to put it somewhere....

Somehow I think Tsjernobyl would be a Mordor-candidate. Oh drat, that ain't a nation. Oh well, nobody's perfect...

Radagast The Brown · 03-22-2002, 05:02 PM

I don't think that U.S. is like Mordor. Mordor purpose was to captured Midle Earth. U.S. do not want to capture the world.
I think Mordor looks like Nazi Germany like Cirdan wrote because it wanted to capture the world and it had some allianse with other natoins (as Japan).

***Earniel*** · 03-22-2002, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
I don't think that U.S. is like Mordor. Mordor purpose was to captured Midle Earth. U.S. do not want to capture the world.

Really, no offence, but I guess that depends on your point of view.

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-22-2002, 05:57 PM

In this case, it's all relative

Unless I was in one of my 'disgusted with my country' moods, I would agree with Cirdan; Mordor=Nazi Germany. Excepting only the small resistance movements. . .there wasn't much rebellion within Mordor against Sauron.

Wayfarer · 03-22-2002, 06:25 PM

Some americans are almost worse than mordor. But they aren't that similar, really.

Prince Faramir · 03-22-2002, 06:41 PM

'gondor = america'

was going to argue about this, thinking that america is too impure and decadent, a culture of destruction if you like BUT this is exactly what Gondor is pre-aragorn.

America is Very PRE-Aragorn I am afraid.

ooooo contraversial. But yeh true

Wayfarer · 03-22-2002, 06:42 PM

All too true...

afro-elf · 03-22-2002, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince Faramir
'gondor = america'

was going to argue about this, thinking that america is too impure and decadent, a culture of destruction if you like BUT this is exactly what Gondor is pre-aragorn.

:

well if i had expanded the thread the above sound more comparing The US to late Numenor

But least we forget all countries of europe imperialistic also.

Cirdan · 03-22-2002, 07:38 PM

Yes, Mordor is conveniently pure evil. The colonial US through the civil war didn't look real good. Slavery, genocide of the native population, pollution of the rivers with waste, deforestation. Again, not pure good or evil.):0

BeardofPants · 03-22-2002, 09:15 PM

America as Mordor? As much as I could believe that, do you really think that Dubya could pass off being Sauron?? He's much too dumb for that! An Orc... maybe!

Eruviel Greenleaf · 03-23-2002, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeardofPants
America as Mordor? As much as I could believe that, do you really think that Dubya could pass off being Sauron?? He's much too dumb for that! An Orc... maybe!

I'd say he is the Mouth of Sauron. He wasn't too bright, as I recall, while being in charge.

BeardofPants · 03-23-2002, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf

I'd say he is the Mouth of Sauron. He wasn't too bright, as I recall, while being in charge.

Cheney as Sauron? Let's see, now I have a picture in my head of Sauron with a pacemaker....

03-18-2002, 10:17 AM	#21
Elvellon Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lindon Posts: 637	The Shire – rural England, duh Arnor – North-western Europe. Once united under the Carolingian Empire, then separated in rival kingdoms. The rivalry among these kingdoms almost led to the ruin of the region, as it did in Arnor. Gondor – Southern Europe. Once the heart of powerful empires, its role dwindled with time. Here the culture of old Rome (Numenor) was partially preserved. For a long time the Iberian nations were the barrier between the peoples of North Africa (Harad) and Europe and the Bizantinean empire did the same with the East. The land and sea empires of Portugal and Spain can also be compared with the empire of the ship-kings. The Reunited Kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor – the European Union. Harad – North Africa, divided in kingdoms, sometimes allied and friendly towards the European (Arnor & Gondor), sometimes their enemies. Rohan – USA. Always getting involved in the wars of Gondor (as Europe), and in wars against the Shadow in the East. But don’t have frontiers with these regions. Its army is THE military force of late Third Age. The role of the ancestors of the Rohirrim in the Kin- strife can be compared with the USA role during WW II. Mordor – the present enemy of the Free Peoples of the West. Whoever this may be at the time. Lindon – must be a seafaring nation. Personally I can’t see them as Vikings, or acting as corsairs. Perhaps Portugal, since it was a nation that spent centuries methodically exploring the seas. Imladris – a small, but pleasant enclave of the Free Peoples. I don’t se it as neutral, so I cannot compare it to Switzerland. Perhaps Luxemburg. Lorien – make your guess. Orcish Domains – certain football associations, dominated by Hooligans(orcs and trolls). __________________ **************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion Last edited by Elvellon : 03-18-2002 at 10:20 AM.

03-18-2002, 01:14 PM	#22
Brimvalir Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: California Posts: 103	State Version Gondor = California Bree = Nevada Rivendell = Iowa Rohan = Michigan __________________ Swords are of no more use here ... All that is gold does not glitter nor are all those who wander lost......

03-18-2002, 01:35 PM	#23
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	I might have to disagree with Gondor as Cali. I'd say East coast for Gondor, definately. Dunno which, though. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

03-18-2002, 02:41 PM	#24
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Mirkwood the dense jungles of south america dol guldor the drug cartels there __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

03-22-2002, 05:02 PM	#30
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I don't think that U.S. is like Mordor. Mordor purpose was to captured Midle Earth. U.S. do not want to capture the world. I think Mordor looks like Nazi Germany like Cirdan wrote because it wanted to capture the world and it had some allianse with other natoins (as Japan). __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

03-21-2002, 11:50 PM	#26
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Mordor is the U.S.? Excuse me. This may just become a heated thread.

03-22-2002, 05:57 PM	#32
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	In this case, it's all relative Unless I was in one of my 'disgusted with my country' moods, I would agree with Cirdan; Mordor=Nazi Germany. Excepting only the small resistance movements. . .there wasn't much rebellion within Mordor against Sauron. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

03-22-2002, 06:25 PM	#33
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Some americans are almost worse than mordor. But they aren't that similar, really. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

03-22-2002, 06:41 PM	#34
Prince Faramir Enting Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: cardiff, Britain Posts: 77	hmmmm 'gondor = america' was going to argue about this, thinking that america is too impure and decadent, a culture of destruction if you like BUT this is exactly what Gondor is pre-aragorn. America is Very PRE-Aragorn I am afraid. ooooo contraversial. But yeh true __________________ "I'd Rather Be a No-one Than Someone With No-one"

03-22-2002, 06:42 PM	#35
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	All too true... __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

03-22-2002, 07:38 PM	#37
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	Mordor? Yes, Mordor is conveniently pure evil. The colonial US through the civil war didn't look real good. Slavery, genocide of the native population, pollution of the rivers with waste, deforestation. Again, not pure good or evil.):0 __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

03-22-2002, 09:15 PM	#38
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	America as Mordor? As much as I could believe that, do you really think that Dubya could pass off being Sauron?? He's much too dumb for that! An Orc... maybe! __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

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