Eowyn and Faramir - Page 2

Eothain · 01-17-2003, 04:06 PM

She will probobly die normally

Elf Girl · 01-17-2003, 06:18 PM

After further thought, I don't think Faramir would choose to die when she does, because he will live maybe ten or twenty years more than her, not forever. Also because his father made him wary of falling into despair.

***Jonathan*** · 01-18-2003, 06:01 AM

Faramir died at the age of 120. Even though Éowyn had some of Númernors blood, I doubt that she could live longer than 110 years and die after Faramir (she was born almost ten years after Faramir).
Since Faramir was more "elvish" than Éowyn, he must have a shorter lifespan.

Elf Girl · 01-18-2003, 08:53 AM

Do you mean a longer lifespan?

***Jonathan*** · 01-18-2003, 09:43 AM

That's right, Faramir should have a longer life span than Éowyn, and Éowyn should have a shorter lifespan than Faramir.

Lalaith · 01-18-2003, 02:57 PM

Okay, I thought about it and Tolkien does not write enough about Faramir to tell, wether he would die with Eowyn or not.
But another thought is, that they maybe die normal and then come to the halls of Mandos. And Tolkien once wrote, that the Valar can allow died mortals to come to Valinor and live ther (then Immortal). So maybe, the both of them - as well as the rest of the important ring war people - were asked to come to Valinor.
But that's only a guessing. What do you think?

Elf Girl · 01-18-2003, 04:34 PM

I don't think so. We can't have too many ex-mortals cluttering up Valinor, no precious.

cassiopeia · 01-19-2003, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
And Tolkien once wrote, that the Valar can allow died mortals to come to Valinor and live ther (then Immortal). So maybe, the both of them - as well as the rest of the important ring war people - were asked to come to Valinor.
But that's only a guessing. What do you think?

I don't think so either. Only immortals were allowed to stay in Valinor. The only mortal allowed to leave Mandos and return was Beren. Eowyn and Faramir would have left the circles of the world.

Lalaith · 01-19-2003, 07:12 AM

Mabe I'm mixing it up with The Book of Lost Tales, because there he wrote, that mortals can come to Valinor from Mandos' halls when they are invited from the Valar.
But I'm not quite sure if he keept this idea in the Silmarillion (I'm just reading the book of lost tales and maybe he droped that idea in later stories.)

greyhavener · 01-19-2003, 05:44 PM

I'm too lazy to look this up, so indulge me...I didn't think mortals got a choice about when to die. Mortality seems to imply the absence of control over death. Where in LOTR or the Silm. are death options for mortals described?

Artanis · 01-19-2003, 06:04 PM

Quote:

I'm too lazy to look this up, so indulge me...I didn't think mortals got a choice about when to die. Mortality seems to imply the absence of control over death. Where in LOTR or the Silm. are death options for mortals described?

Men being mortal means that their lifespan is short, and they can die from illness. When they die, their spirits are summoned to Mandos, and after some time they are free to leave the world. The Elves are immortal, but they can still be slain, so they do not have complete control over their death. But then they may be reincarnated. Their spirits are bound to be in the world until it ends.

In RotK, Aragorn laid himself down to die because he percieved it was the right time to do so. He was old and he would soon fall into dotage if he should live longer. By doing this he continued the ancient practice of the Numenorean Kings before their fall.

markedel · 01-19-2003, 08:15 PM

Numenorians are blessed by having are very short, if swift decline.

Lalaith · 01-23-2003, 02:31 PM

So Faramir could also choose to die, if he thinks that he is old enough and his life should be over (like all Numenoreans could).

Artanis · 01-23-2003, 02:53 PM

Yes I believe he could, and I think he would. But not until he had become old. I don't think he would lie himself down to die only because of the death of Eowyn. He had other obligations in the world.

Lalaith · 01-26-2003, 05:30 AM

Maybe, but if was already old and maybe only lived on because Eowyn was still alive, he would have chosen death if she died. That would be an alternative opportunity.

Artanis · 01-26-2003, 07:00 AM

Yes, but if he was old and he had already passed on his duties, and Eowyn was still alive, then I think he would choose to die even before her. Like Aragorn, who could have chosen to stay alive with Arwen a few more years, but did not.

I have often wondered more about their life together than their death. Do you think they were happy together? Faramir was such a perfect Man, you would expect his marriage to be perfect also. But Eowyn, do you think she was really content with a quiet life in Ithilien? Somehow I doubt it.

Coney · 01-26-2003, 07:15 AM

Didn't Eowyn renounce her ways and become a healer of some description? I'm sure this brought her a lot of "contentment".

Although if she were my nurse I'd be sure to take my medicine......scary woman that....

Quote:

Do you think they were happy together?

I think that they would be very happy together.........They both lost a great deal during the war of the ring and in the houses of healing I think they both realised that, despite their wishes and best efforts, the world would change without them personally fighting to the death (luckily the world changed for the better)..that's is when they found their place in the world...... not on a throne, or laden with riches but with each other

*removes his soppy head*

Lalaith · 01-26-2003, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Like Aragorn, who could have chosen to stay alive with Arwen a few more years, but did not.

Oh, I did not think of the fact, that Aragorn chose to die while Arwen was still alive.

Quote:

have often wondered more about their life together than their death. Do you think they were happy together? Faramir was such a perfect Man, you would expect his marriage to be perfect also. But Eowyn, do you think she was really content with a quiet life in Ithilien? Somehow I doubt it.

Yeah, I always wondered what happend to them after they went to Ithilien. In RotK I miss an ending of their story like it is written of Frodo and Sam and how their lifes were.
I think they were happy, but I wonder if Eowyn really forgot about Aragorn and if Faramir was not jealous.

Artanis · 01-26-2003, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney
I think that they would be very happy together.........They both lost a great deal during the war of the ring and in the houses of healing I think they both realised that, despite their wishes and best efforts, the world would change without them personally fighting to the death (luckily the world changed for the better)..that's is when they found their place in the world...... not on a throne, or laden with riches but with each other

Oh what great romance

I just find it difficult to believe in the 'living-happily-ever-after' story. But then already Faramir is too good to be true, so his marriage could have been too. Am I putting too much of the real world into their marriage perhaps?

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
Yeah, I always wondered what happend to them after they went to Ithilien. In RotK I miss an ending of their story like it is written of Frodo and Sam and how their lifes were.

That's the one defect about the LotR book (as the author himself have stated): It is too short.

Lalaith · 01-26-2003, 10:18 AM

I love the fact that everybody seems to think, that Faramir was the perfect man. Where does that opinion come from? By the way I can't remember any bad habbits of him, too.

01-17-2003, 04:06 PM	#21
Eothain Enting Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 73	LOTR She will probobly die normally __________________ Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpsting, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have past like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning? Frodo lives

01-17-2003, 06:18 PM	#22
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	After further thought, I don't think Faramir would choose to die when she does, because he will live maybe ten or twenty years more than her, not forever. Also because his father made him wary of falling into despair. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

01-18-2003, 06:01 AM	#23
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	Faramir died at the age of 120. Even though Éowyn had some of Númernors blood, I doubt that she could live longer than 110 years and die after Faramir (she was born almost ten years after Faramir). Since Faramir was more "elvish" than Éowyn, he must have a shorter lifespan. __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

01-18-2003, 08:53 AM	#24
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	Do you mean a longer lifespan? __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

01-18-2003, 09:43 AM	#25
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	That's right, Faramir should have a longer life span than Éowyn, and Éowyn should have a shorter lifespan than Faramir. __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

01-18-2003, 02:57 PM	#26
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	Okay, I thought about it and Tolkien does not write enough about Faramir to tell, wether he would die with Eowyn or not. But another thought is, that they maybe die normal and then come to the halls of Mandos. And Tolkien once wrote, that the Valar can allow died mortals to come to Valinor and live ther (then Immortal). So maybe, the both of them - as well as the rest of the important ring war people - were asked to come to Valinor. But that's only a guessing. What do you think? __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

01-18-2003, 04:34 PM	#27
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	I don't think so. We can't have too many ex-mortals cluttering up Valinor, no precious. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

01-19-2003, 07:12 AM	#29
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	The Book of Lost Tales Mabe I'm mixing it up with The Book of Lost Tales, because there he wrote, that mortals can come to Valinor from Mandos' halls when they are invited from the Valar. But I'm not quite sure if he keept this idea in the Silmarillion (I'm just reading the book of lost tales and maybe he droped that idea in later stories.) __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

01-19-2003, 05:44 PM	#30
greyhavener Sapling Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2	I'm too lazy to look this up, so indulge me...I didn't think mortals got a choice about when to die. Mortality seems to imply the absence of control over death. Where in LOTR or the Silm. are death options for mortals described?

01-19-2003, 08:15 PM	#32
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Numenorians are blessed by having are very short, if swift decline. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

01-23-2003, 02:31 PM	#33
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	So Faramir could also choose to die, if he thinks that he is old enough and his life should be over (like all Numenoreans could). __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

01-23-2003, 02:53 PM	#34
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	Yes I believe he could, and I think he would. But not until he had become old. I don't think he would lie himself down to die only because of the death of Eowyn. He had other obligations in the world. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

01-26-2003, 05:30 AM	#35
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	Maybe, but if was already old and maybe only lived on because Eowyn was still alive, he would have chosen death if she died. That would be an alternative opportunity. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

01-26-2003, 07:00 AM	#36
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	Yes, but if he was old and he had already passed on his duties, and Eowyn was still alive, then I think he would choose to die even before her. Like Aragorn, who could have chosen to stay alive with Arwen a few more years, but did not. I have often wondered more about their life together than their death. Do you think they were happy together? Faramir was such a perfect Man, you would expect his marriage to be perfect also. But Eowyn, do you think she was really content with a quiet life in Ithilien? Somehow I doubt it. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

01-26-2003, 10:18 AM	#40
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	I love the fact that everybody seems to think, that Faramir was the perfect man. Where does that opinion come from? By the way I can't remember any bad habbits of him, too. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

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