Writing using Tengwar characters

[Ñólendil]

While you're here, could you please tell me how you type in all those special accent marks (tilde over n, accented vowels, umlaut, circumflex, etc)? Do you do it with the alt key and a number code, like Sminty's link, or is there a better way? I have just copied and pasted in the past, but sometimes can't find the right thing to copy. Thanks (ps - really enjoy your posts, esp. all those lovely Quenyan names you put in!)

It's the Alt number thingy. "Ã*" is Alt+161.

Here's a bit of a list to help you:


á Alt+160
Ã* Alt+161
ó Alt+162
ú Alt+163
é Alt+130
ä Alt+132
ë Alt+137
ï Alt+139
Ä Alt+142
ö Alt+148
Ö Alt+153
¿ Alt+168
Þ Alt+0222
þ Alt+0254
ñ Alt + 164
Ñ Alt + 165
¿ Alt+168
æ Alt+145
Æ Alt+146
û Alt+150
É Alt +144

I'm very glad you enjoy my posts! It's nice to know my pointless ramblings don't go unnoticed

[katya]

RÃ*an- when i was memorizing, what i did was i wrote a lot of things out, like the ring verse and other things i had memorized, using the sheet like i was doing one of those code puzzles for little kids, one letter at a time. eventually i got to remember letter, particularly frequent ones. afterwards i continued to do this without the sheet. as a kind of test to see if i still needed the sheet (and more practice) i wrote out the alphabet a couple times, skipping the vowels and x and c (and adding things like sh) i natuarally remember things like the grouping. at this point i can read fairly quickly but i still have to look at the letters to see what they are. i do it sort of one letter at a time, only quickly. i know the letters for the most part as soon as i see them. one problem i keep repeating over and over is writing (or starting to write) 'b' like 'th' i think it is...(i dont know; i have some changes like i change around 'th' and unvoiced 'r') anyway i write it like the open one-bow b-ish thingy.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
It's the Alt number thingy. "Ã*" is Alt+161.

Rats - I had hoped it would be easier. In Microsoft Word, it is something like hold-down-Alt, press tilde then the letter, release-alt, which is really not too bad. I found out how to do it in Word and then tried it in Entmoot, but it didn't work here. Oh well.

Thanks for the chart! (p.s. - found any reference yet for the flaming hair mystery over in Athrabeth?)

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Yeah Rìan, I started memorizing the first group - the "p" group (opened P) but it seems to be different than yours... http://wwwusers.imaginet.fr/~smartin...nglish_eng.htm

I have the open p group memorized since today and will start on the next group ASAP... I have school projects to do tonight.


-~*Smintz

[Ñólendil]

(p.s. - found any reference yet for the flaming hair mystery over in Athrabeth?)

It's in the Shibboleth of Fëanor, but I'm too lazy to get the quote. I thought SGH has the book.

[Rían]

good luck, Sminty! Let me know how it's going.

[Rían]

Some interesting Tengwar notes -

The lady that cuts my hair is Iranian (she's been cutting my hair for 12 years now - really nice lady!). I asked her to write my name in Farsi, because I am interested in how other languages look (obviously, because I started this thread!) and to my surprise, one of the characters in my name has the triple-dot thingie over it, just like the "A" vowel mark!!

Also, Sminty, if you ever try to translate something Christopher Tolkien wrote, he switches his "E" and "I" vowel marks around - they are opposite from J.R.R.'s. He also created a few of his own, which I think are described in the links I gave you.

Also, you've probably noticed there is no character for "C" - just use "K" or "S", depending upon what sound the "C" is making (like the word "circus" would be spelled "sirkus"). Strange that the "C" is both a "K" and a "S" in that word!

katya - do you use the s-curl at the end of a word to show plurals? I do - I think it looks better than just the "S" tengwa, and I usually write it with a big flourish to make it look pretty.

[Earniel]

I used to write letters to a friend in dwarf runes, that was pretty good practise (also for my English) unfortunately she stopped writing.

I never tried my hand on tengwar because I never had a decent key. Those links might help, thanks RÃ*an! (note the ´on the Ã*, it's very handy having a keyboard with accents and such only two keystrokes away )

Edit: RÃ*an, my sister loves the last line in your sig.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

I have memorized: t, d, th, th, r, n, p, b, f, v, m, w since yeserday. The first six I learned yesterday and the second six I learned today (as well as praciticing first six). All day in school today, when I got time, I would translate homework I had done previously in to the tengwar characters I knew (using reg. letters for characters I didn't know). Would this be good practice? it's easier to recite and picture them in your head, but when you'r writing in them or translating something, you have to think through the ones you have learned to find the right one. Does this go away after a while?

-~*Smintz

[Rían]

Originally posted by Eärniel
I used to write letters to a friend in dwarf runes, that was pretty good practise (also for my English) unfortunately she stopped writing.

I never tried my hand on tengwar because I never had a decent key. Those links might help, thanks RÃ*an! (note the ´on the Ã*, it's very handy having a keyboard with accents and such only two keystrokes away )

Edit: RÃ*an, my sister loves the last line in your sig.

Eärniel - Let me encourage you to try Tengwar - it's really pretty (IMHO). For some reason, it is rather soothing to me to write in Tengwar - sometimes when I'm stressed, I'll just start writing, and just the forming of the characters settles me down a bit (I make them a little prettier than they are on the chart, more like calligraphy). I'm pretty sure there's a French mode for Tengwar - check on the Internet - I'll try and look, too, when I get a few free minutes (I'm back to speed-posting mode, had a really busy day today, hope to have some time Wednesday). French would be your native tongue, right?? (I sure hope I'm right!)

Is your keyboard a "Belgian" keyboard with accent marks? That's handy!

I'm glad your sister found that quote funny - I sure did! I found a whole page of those "Veni, Vidi" takeoffs once, and they were really funny. Another one of my favorites is "Veni, vidi, visa - I came, I saw, I put it on my charge card" - obviously a serious shopper! (Do you have visa-brand charge cards there? I have no idea, sorry! )

I haven't seen you back on the Athrabeth thread - I was hoping to see more posts from you Come and visit over there again when you can, it's such a pretty story.

Well, this ended up pretty long for a speed post! Better go ...

[Shadowfax]

That is so cool that you guys can read and write the Tengwar characters! I am quite intrigued by that stuff and I love looking at it (who doesn't!!?) ...I often try to copy the writing on my LotR books! I think I am going to start to try learning those characters, though! Way to go guys!

[Rían]

Hi, Shadowfax! Glad you joined us here. Learning Tengwar is really very do-able. Be sure to check out the links we listed earlier and print yourself out a little table. Then try learning in small groups, like I told Sminty earlier, if you think that would be helpful.

Hold on a sec - *writes Shadowfax in Tengwar* - yes, it looks very pretty! The only tricky part is that there is no "X" character - instead, "KS" is used (it's the same sound). (flips through Tengwar notes* darn! I can't find what page it's on - it's actually the K tengwa modified by the s-curl-thingie, not a K followed by an S - I'll try to find the sample for you if you would like. Also, for Q, you do KW (two seperate letters).

Katya, is that how you do X and Q? Sminty, how goes it?

p.s. - Shadowfax, love your avatar! Go Larry and Bob! Pa Grape is sure funny, isn't he?

[Earniel]

I'm certainly going to try tengwar, RÃ*an. It's indeed a very pretty alfabet. I'm from the Flemish part of Belgium though, so French isn't my mothertongue. But it's supposed to be my second language, so I can read and speak it reasonably well (although my English is better ) Living in a country with Dutch, French and German as official country languages has it advantages as you get keyboards with the accents needed in all three languages. And we have visa around here.

I haven't posted in the Athrabeth thread because I haven't read Morgoth's Ring yet and can't really participate. I also try to avoid making meaningless posts. But I still follow it and if I have something more or less sensible to add, I will.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

I'm hopefully going to have a total of 9 characters learnt by the end of today. I'm trying to do 3 a day...


-~*Smintz*~-

PS- it's going pretty well except I always find myself getting "r" and "n" mixed up.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Sminty_Smeagol
PS- it's going pretty well except I always find myself getting "r" and "n" mixed up.

I just use the "y"-looking character (#25) for "r" (like in my avatar) because I think it's prettier and there's so many of the other type that I like to use the different looking letters, too. (The first 24 are all of the bow/stem type, with various open/closed bows and short/long, up/down stems.) My favorite letter to draw is the "L" (#27). I make it nice and swoop-y.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Eärniel
I'm certainly going to try tengwar, RÃ*an. It's indeed a very pretty alfabet. I'm from the Flemish part of Belgium though, so French isn't my mothertongue. But it's supposed to be my second language, so I can read and speak it reasonably well (although my English is better ) ... And we have visa around here.

Good! I hope you like it. I know there is a German mode for Tengwar out there, too, if that is helpful. Keep us posted on your progress.
I thought you probably had visa, but wasn't sure. They're going to take over the world!!! OH NO!!

I haven't posted in the Athrabeth thread because I haven't read Morgoth's Ring yet and can't really participate. I also try to avoid making meaningless posts. But I still follow it and if I have something more or less sensible to add, I will.

Hope you can get a copy soon. The whole book is good, not just the Athrabeth part (though that part is my favorite!)

[katya]

Originally posted by RÃ*an


katya - do you use the s-curl at the end of a word to show plurals? I do - I think it looks better than just the "S" tengwa, and I usually write it with a big flourish to make it look pretty.

actually i am not really sure what the s curl is. i will find out though. i have been using the s tengwa bu ti thought it could use a change. (really, today i was thinking that and was on the verge of making up my own s)

Originally posted by RÃ*an


Katya, is that how you do X and Q? Sminty, how goes it?

i make my x like the k tengwa then the s tengwa, but as i said, i dont know the s curl. i make my q like a q but with just a q and no u after it. i kind of did what it appears that christopher tolkien did according to previous posts and basically write it however i want. i switch some things and make up my own symbols.

[Rían]

The s-curl is referred to in about the third paragraph after the big letter chart in the first link that I gave. It's an easy way to make plurals, and it gives kind of a more interesting look than just a final, seperate 'S' (IMHO ) because you can make the curl branch right off the end of the last letter in all sorts of interesting ways (check Tolkien's letter #118 where he wrote a letter to a friend using Tengwar - his curls go all sorts of different directions! I especially like the one at the end of the word "explanations".) Try it!

I try to use the tilde symbol (described in the same paragraph) to indicate "preceded by a nasal of the same column" (like nt, nd, mp or mb), but I usually remember too late, and since those combinations are usually preceded by a vowel, I get a stack of three symbols and it ends up too low! I always use the tilde below, though, for indicating doubled consonants.

Note to people learning Tengwar - This all sounds harder than it really is - keep at it, it is very enjoyable

[Rían]

whoops, Sminty - missed your post of a few days ago - yes, you think you've got it, then you try to write something and find you have to pause and think for certain letters. It will get better, just keep writing, writing, writing!

Ñólendil and Sminty - I am getting so frustrated with those special characters - I was all set to type in some Quenyan names, and only some of the codes work. If there is a 5, 6, 7 or 8 in the code, it brings up menus! (5 brings up the edit menu, 6 brings up the file menu, etc.). Drat my snarky computer! I tried using the numbers above the letters, but none of those work. I guess I'll have to go back to copy-and-paste-and-edit for most of the characters, or just forget it. (But the names look so much better with the marks!!)

Katya - tried those s-curls yet?

[katya]

oh ok i will go to the link sounds good. i learned to write in cyrillic. sweetness. they are both good. i am still working on my cyrillic. i just started today. it;s nice though because many of the letters are the same.