Are there any homosexual characters in The Silmarillion?

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Ian McKellen did this, to a smaller degree, in the films.

Where??

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Where??

He admits it in the FotR commentary (SE).

[Peter_20]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

To be honest, I'm extremely grateful to Tolkien than he didn't concentrate on sexual stuff at all. The kissing scene between Faramir and Eowyn is the only "close" lovey dovey scene in the whole work. Sexual orientation just...is not in a work like LotR.

Then I'll ask you all: why do homosexual characters equal to sexual scenes?

It's borderline unnatural that all characters in Arda are heterosexual.
I swear there are homosexual guys in that world as well, no matter what Tolkien says.
He would be really weird if he seriously thought a whole planet would exclusively consist of heterosexuals.

Possible characters are Maedhros, Caranthir, Gil-galad, Angrod, Aegnor, Frodo, Boromir... just to state some examples.

It's pretty interesting how those Elves survived for thousands of years without having sex and getting children even ONCE.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Peter_20

Then I'll ask you all: why does homosexual characters equal to sexual scenes?

Then why do you care? If you can't tell/see it, then it doesn't really matter; and you can leave it simply at guessing or wishing if someone was gay etc...

It isn't in the books, zippo. In the movies you can read some stuff into the elves etc...filmmakers version.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Peter_20

Then I'll ask you all: why do homosexual characters equal to sexual scenes?

It's borderline unnatural that all characters in Arda are heterosexual.
I swear there are homosexual guys in that world as well.

Possible characters are Maedhros, Caranthir, Gil-galad, Angrod, Aegnor, Frodo, Boromir... just to state some examples.

It's pretty interesting how those Elves survived for thousands of years without having sex and getting children even ONCE.

Thats reading into it, and thats your choice/view...
Objectively though, it would not have entered Tolkien's mind to expand so far into his world that he had to make people gay or straight or in-between.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Peter_20

It would be cool if some of the characters just WERE homosexuals, period.

I still don't quite see the attraction of why LoTR would be cooler with homosexuals. Would LoTR be so much better when J.R.R. added somewhere in the Lorien chapters "Oh, and Haldir prefers men, by the way."?

Seems a very limited way to enjoy fiction, if you ask me. Just because characters can be different doesn't mean they have to be.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

People gotta chill.

I think it's even funnier that no one ever has a head cold. Most of us, sad to say, spend more time sneezing than having sex, whatever our preferences.

Yet, Bilbo's birthday at the Long Lake is the ONLY real snotfest in all those centuries.

I can only assume Tolkien had a deep religious objection to catarrh.

Like Jesus, it's perfectly possible those elves had families, and it just didn't seem relevant to to the story to mention it.

And I CANNOT believe, Butterbeer, that you don't see the clear endorsement of sustainable living in every DETAIL of the 100 Acre Wood lifestyle. If it isn't a full on indictment of suburban consumerism, right down to the reused "Sanders" sign, I'll, well, I'll eat my soyink copy of "Wind in The Willows", noted British metaphor of Imperialism.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

"Oh, and Haldir prefers men, by the way."?

but you know he did.

Admit it. He's a nice guy, but he set your gaydar off, bigtime.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

but you know he did.

Admit it. He's a nice guy, but he set your gaydar off, bigtime.

Why'dya think he was the first example I thought of?

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Why'dya think he was the first example I thought of?

In the movies, yes. In addition to Gandalf.

[Tessar]

Well, you know those Europeans. They're all a bit gay, really.


*RUNS FOR HIS LIFE!*

Kiiiiding.

... *keeps on running anyways*

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

If you didn't know Sir Ian was gay, you wouldn't think his Gandalf was. Honestly.

There have been "gay" portrayals" of a lot of characters. There have been camp elements. There have been gay actors playing heterosexuals, and there have been straight actors playing gay characters. And ther have been completely over the top flamers.

But Gandalf wasn't one of them. I've seen Sir Ian be swish, and he didn't do that.

Makes me sad that you're letting this upset you.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

If you didn't know Sir Ian was gay, you wouldn't think his Gandalf was. Honestly.

Sis, if he was meddling enough to put a little Frodo/Sam tension in there, he was also capable of making Gandalf a litte...you know.

Makes me sad that you're letting this upset you.

Where is it upsetting me? I'm not upset, I'm combatative.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Sir Ian is a great actor.

If he wanted Gandalf to be so hot that he made Cassanova give up girls, I seriously doubt Peter Jackson could have stopped him. That man has milage.

But he didn't.

So why not take it as "He's messing with you, because he knew he had an international forum to yank your chain about gay stuff, and he has a long history of doing so."

He's just being a brat. Trust me. Takes one to know one.

[hectorberlioz]

He is a good actor, hardly great though...

You think he's pulling legs with his admitting on the LotR commentary?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

of the Grey and White book diaries?

He's not closeted, at all, and he has his POV. So I think, if he wanted to say, "Hey, today I made sure buggery was a subtext." he'd have said it.

I just don't think it's there.

(you sweet talker, you. *bats eyes*)

[hectorberlioz]

I know he's not closeted, and he sure wasn't closeted about admitting that he meddled with Sam/Frodo ideas...

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

I saw all those features, and I don't recall being struck with an 'Egad! ', but perhaps I was inattentive.

[hectorberlioz]

Undoubtedly

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by Peter_20

Listen, I'm not trying to add some gay sex action in Tolkien's works, OK?
I'm just saying that it's kinda weird that hundreds and hundreds of characters are heterosexual, with no exceptions whatsoever.
It would be cool if some of the characters just WERE homosexuals, period.
And no, they don't have to "show it" or anything, just BE it.

Seriously, Tolkien has created LOTS of characters in his works, and he's trying to tell me that they are all full-blown heterosexuals?
No way, that's just absurd.

heh, whilst i can take your point - my view is simply and clearly this - one shouldn't forget when and by whom this was written.

Trying a 21st Century, and thus revisionist, take, in modern day context, on both the author and on the time in which it was written and before that in part concieved ... in terms of both the story in historical and social let alone moralisitic terms into one or two generations after it was written seems entirely nonsenisical.

To me, Peter 20, had the question been posed in a less 'black and white' manner and with more subletly it may have engendered more of a debate...

But to my mind, you might as well ask why the 'dark age' Norwegians didn't write in classical Greek ?