the subject of...

LuthienTinuviel · 05-06-2002, 04:54 PM

love.
true love, storybook love, unconditional love
what is it to you guys?

and what does it mean to say goodbye to someone you love?

i felt alot like sam at the end of LotR this whole week, giving up someone (more like a whole bunch for me) who youve been through hell with and survived with flying colors.
my "family" is leaving. i can't stand it. these people are part of me and in two weeks they won't be there anymore. they took thier last bow yesterday. even our "hairy giant" zak, who looks like 40 year opld was crying onstage.

oh i almost forgot, im talking about all the people who are leaving the drama dept. and how i won't see them again.

haha that might help.

but anyways, what is love, anytype of love, mean to you guys and girls?

galadriel88 · 05-06-2002, 09:06 PM

Well, there are different types of love. There's the way you love you bf/gf/husband/wife, and that goes way, way beyond just liking them. When you love someone like that, it's unconditional, no matter what is happening. You always have feelings for them and miss them deeply whaen they are not with you. It's like they're part of you. You always put them before you and would be willing to do anything if they were in danger.

Then there's the way you love your friends. These are the people you hang out with, the people you've grown up with, and they're almost part of the family.

And, there's the way you love your parents. They've raised you, loved you, and been your mentors. They've been with you ever since you were born, feeding, clothing, and teaching you. You have a deep respect for them, and are appreciative of all they've done for you.

I think that pretty much sums it up...

***Khamûl*** · 05-06-2002, 10:19 PM

Well said galadriel88. Here's my take on it:

First there's brotherly love. This is the kind of love between two friends and the starting point for most relationships. No romance involved, just a platonic feeling for another person.

Then there's romantic love. This is felt between boyfriend and girlfriend, and husband and wife. They will do most anything for each other. This leads to my third type of love...

Unconditional love. This is a love like no other. It's between parents and their children. This type of love crosses all boundaries. It's nice to know that your parents will still love you no matter how bad you mess up. I think that the Greeks called this agape love.

Sorry if I rambled, but these are some of my thoughts on love.

LuthienTinuviel · 05-07-2002, 03:18 PM

sounds good, you guys.

unconditional love is different for everin the world, while the feeling doesn't change from person to person, the indivual(s) being loved do.

wait, distraction, lost my tought train.. hmm i'll come back later and finish this

Lizra · 05-07-2002, 03:39 PM

I like this topic! There are many ways to love,that is good, as there are so many ways to hurt. To look forward to, is the radical love you discover when you have a child. It's hard to believe you could love that much! As far as endings, I feel so sad for the really old ones in nursing homes and such. All they get is a heavy dose of endings, but you have to take it. sigh

LuthienTinuviel · 05-07-2002, 10:19 PM

ahh, the hurt factor comes in.
love is definitly a factor in hurt. if someone tells you they love you (and means it) what a osition of power your in!
you have he power to collapse that person into their core, make the entire sould crave your being. or you could create eternal joy and love them back

by that i mean MAKE BABIES!

no not really.
but to feel real love. real solid unconditional love. i feel lucky to have loved (and still love) all those people that are leaving. and by their actions and words i know that they are grateful to have loved and still love the ones they are leaving behind.
nothing will ever be the same again and it tears us all apart at the very seams.

galadriel88 · 05-07-2002, 10:35 PM

You're right Khamul, agape is the Greek term. my preacher would be very mad at me right now...

Agape is the word used in the Bible whenever the writer is talking about God's love for us. It's unconditional. He loves us even when we sin, wants us to return to Him when we do, and is pleased with us when we do what's right. His love is immeasurable. If you can get a grip on that, then that's basically how romantic love should be. And while the physical attraction plays a part in it, it's not all about sex. (Excuse my bluntness.) There are abusive husbands out there who could care less about their wives emotional and physical health and keep them just so they can satisfy themselves. And that is definitely not love.

BTW, Luthien, thank you for starting this thread! An excellent topic, and a very good reason for the admins to keep GM open!!

Lizra · 05-10-2002, 08:00 AM

You know, Galadriel 88, I m sure you shouldn't call bf/gf/husband/wife/ (the male/female thing) unconditional. There's always conditions! The first, that you love them back, and the list can go on quite a way after that. A husband/ wife thing could become unconditional I suppose, but it would take a very long time. At least 15 to 20 years. How quickly a bf/gf love thing changes is amazing, as soon a one dissapoints ,or lets the other down, the sands start shifting. I'm amazed many of those pre-arranged marriages worked in the past (and still do in some countries).

Andúril · 05-10-2002, 10:53 AM

Quote:

It's unconditional. He loves us even when we sin...

At the risk of turning this into another religious squabble, I will ask: does he love (x) when he sends (x) to hell?

Lizra · 05-10-2002, 11:19 AM

I always thought you sent yourself to hell. He doesn't have much to do with the bad choices you make. He is sad if you do, (make bad choices,or go to hell) because he loves you, but there is no such thing as Hell!

Andúril · 05-10-2002, 11:37 AM

Quote:

I always thought you sent yourself to hell.

Intentionally? If someone believed in the the existence of hell, I doubt they would want to be anywhere near that place, unless they worshipped Satan. If you don't believe in hell, the concept of sending yourself there intentionally is meaningless.

If it is unintentional, then who/what sends you to hell?

Quote:

He is sad if you do, (make bad choices,or go to hell) because he loves you...

This is best shown in the Bible, by the occurences of God smiting those he disapproves of...

Quote:

...there is no such thing as Hell!

Amen!

Lizra · 05-10-2002, 01:17 PM

Well, you send yourself to hell by making bad choices. Whether it's intentional or not, I don't know. I suppose a person could take this decision of how their choices affected their chance of going to Heaven or Hell as seriously as they wanted to. I believe most christians start with the fact that you accept Christ. After that there's as many different opinions as there are people and/or denominations. Don't ask me, I'm no expert. Personnally, I don't believe in the existance of Heaven or Hell as places,so my choices reflect a desire to be a good person and do the right thing. If this should land me in a place called Heaven, great, but I don't lose sleep over it. I kind of like that finding the christ in you concept. You know, you make your own Heaven or Hell for yourself. The Bible, in particular the old testement, is written by many different folk,in many different places and times. I certainly don't take it literally and don't get into Bible qoute discussions. Once again, there are a million different opinions, I think the Bible is a group of writings of different peoples, from other times that helped those people make sense of their world. I wish I had a more exciting reply, but" I don't really know" about covers it for me.

LuthienTinuviel · 05-11-2002, 12:08 AM

soo wait, lemme get this straight, you don't believ in helll but you can send your self there??!

wow what's the postage for that?!

anyways. to be BACK ON TOPIC

it is possible to love and hate someone at the same time (only not the ring and gollumish way??)
lets say your friends.
is it possible then?

Lizra · 05-11-2002, 08:06 AM

No, since I don't believe in Hell, I don't send myself there. I was just offering an explanation to Anduril of how the set up worked so he could get over the God/ no God thing! Do you think that will happen?

I think if you really love someone, versus liking them alot, you don't really "hate" them, just get very irritated or hurt. It's scary when you get angry at someone you do love. Your emotions kind of get distorted like they are in a magnifing glass or something. The emotional centers in the brain must be very, very closly related , cause it really does get confusing when you are hurt or angry!
I have found that the "Blood runs thicker than water" saying runs very true over time. If you would have told me this when I was in my twenties I would have said "No way!", but everything is always changing (except who you are related to). Have lots of fun with your friends now!

galadriel88 · 05-11-2002, 04:20 PM

1) Thanks for getting this back on topic, Luthien, I avoid the Theist and Anti theist threads for a reason. I only brought up the stuff about God's love to make a point about human love. Which brings me to...

2)Lizra: What I meant was that, even when you have fight and argue, and even though there are things you don't like about each other (quirks, habits, etc.), you still love each other. Period. I mean, you might get aggravated over something, but in the end it's okay and you still love each other, deep down. Also, you still love each other no matter what your financial situation is, or whether you're overweight or a supermodel, what matters to you is the person. That is what I meant by unconditional love. Also, about bfs/gfs: I don't believe that teenagers are capable of true and unconditional love. That is something that grows with wisdom, and time, and age. Now, young adults, as in 23 - 30somethings who have been dating for at least 4 years, may love each other like that, and definitely people that are married. I guess I should have made that clear.

3)Hate is a strong word. You can't love someone and hate them at the same time, but you can be in a fight with them, or even dislike them.

Lizra · 05-11-2002, 09:06 PM

The more you love someone, the more you freak out when they hurt or dissapoint you, cause you've invested so much emotion in them. It might seem like love/hate. I agree Galadriel, hate is a very intense word, hopefully an emotion not to be experienced too often in a lifetime. I remember feeling that way about my father when I was a teen. Now I know how much he loved me!

TinuvielChild · 05-12-2002, 08:58 PM

I know how ya feel, Luthien, i have so many good friends that are seniors this year that are leaving in a few weeks, and some of them i'll never see again.

Almost any kind of love can eventually be unconditional, given enough time. Sam/Frodo's love was completely platonic, and utterly unconditional. Sam was willing to give up his life for Frodo, and vice versa. Most of the rest of what i was going to say has already been voiced by various other Mooters, so i will shut up now.

notice how i was able to sidestep the Bible issue? it's very easy: i know next to nothing about theology and therefore i don't discuss it. i wish other people could do the same,

.

Lizra · 05-13-2002, 08:39 AM

I don't think I'll go there again!

05-06-2002, 04:54 PM	#1
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	the subject of... love. true love, storybook love, unconditional love what is it to you guys? and what does it mean to say goodbye to someone you love? i felt alot like sam at the end of LotR this whole week, giving up someone (more like a whole bunch for me) who youve been through hell with and survived with flying colors. my "family" is leaving. i can't stand it. these people are part of me and in two weeks they won't be there anymore. they took thier last bow yesterday. even our "hairy giant" zak, who looks like 40 year opld was crying onstage. oh i almost forgot, im talking about all the people who are leaving the drama dept. and how i won't see them again. haha that might help. but anyways, what is love, anytype of love, mean to you guys and girls? __________________

05-06-2002, 09:06 PM	#2
galadriel88 Halfwitted Queen of Lothlorien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Far off in a dream Posts: 1,166	Well, there are different types of love. There's the way you love you bf/gf/husband/wife, and that goes way, way beyond just liking them. When you love someone like that, it's unconditional, no matter what is happening. You always have feelings for them and miss them deeply whaen they are not with you. It's like they're part of you. You always put them before you and would be willing to do anything if they were in danger. Then there's the way you love your friends. These are the people you hang out with, the people you've grown up with, and they're almost part of the family. And, there's the way you love your parents. They've raised you, loved you, and been your mentors. They've been with you ever since you were born, feeding, clothing, and teaching you. You have a deep respect for them, and are appreciative of all they've done for you. I think that pretty much sums it up... __________________ The beuatiful mind/The beautiful heart/Doesn't deserve the pain/How can I stop the rain? -How Can I Stop the Rain? by Kessid, my new favorite band +Every good thing that comes into my life is only a reflection of the greatest gift of all; the offering of yourself, dear Son of God+ Always remember, you're uniqe, just like everybody else! "The one constant through all the years has been the Trombone. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again, but the Trombone has marked the time. This field, this section, this band is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again. Oh, people will come . . . people will most definitely come."

05-06-2002, 10:19 PM	#3
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	Well said galadriel88. Here's my take on it: First there's brotherly love. This is the kind of love between two friends and the starting point for most relationships. No romance involved, just a platonic feeling for another person. Then there's romantic love. This is felt between boyfriend and girlfriend, and husband and wife. They will do most anything for each other. This leads to my third type of love... Unconditional love. This is a love like no other. It's between parents and their children. This type of love crosses all boundaries. It's nice to know that your parents will still love you no matter how bad you mess up. I think that the Greeks called this agape love. Sorry if I rambled, but these are some of my thoughts on love. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

05-07-2002, 03:18 PM	#4
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	sounds good, you guys. unconditional love is different for everin the world, while the feeling doesn't change from person to person, the indivual(s) being loved do. wait, distraction, lost my tought train.. hmm i'll come back later and finish this __________________

05-07-2002, 03:39 PM	#5
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I like this topic! There are many ways to love,that is good, as there are so many ways to hurt. To look forward to, is the radical love you discover when you have a child. It's hard to believe you could love that much! As far as endings, I feel so sad for the really old ones in nursing homes and such. All they get is a heavy dose of endings, but you have to take it. sigh __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

05-07-2002, 10:19 PM	#6
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	ahh, the hurt factor comes in. love is definitly a factor in hurt. if someone tells you they love you (and means it) what a osition of power your in! you have he power to collapse that person into their core, make the entire sould crave your being. or you could create eternal joy and love them back by that i mean MAKE BABIES! no not really. but to feel real love. real solid unconditional love. i feel lucky to have loved (and still love) all those people that are leaving. and by their actions and words i know that they are grateful to have loved and still love the ones they are leaving behind. nothing will ever be the same again and it tears us all apart at the very seams. __________________

05-07-2002, 10:35 PM	#7
galadriel88 Halfwitted Queen of Lothlorien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Far off in a dream Posts: 1,166	You're right Khamul, agape is the Greek term. my preacher would be very mad at me right now... Agape is the word used in the Bible whenever the writer is talking about God's love for us. It's unconditional. He loves us even when we sin, wants us to return to Him when we do, and is pleased with us when we do what's right. His love is immeasurable. If you can get a grip on that, then that's basically how romantic love should be. And while the physical attraction plays a part in it, it's not all about sex. (Excuse my bluntness.) There are abusive husbands out there who could care less about their wives emotional and physical health and keep them just so they can satisfy themselves. And that is definitely not love. BTW, Luthien, thank you for starting this thread! An excellent topic, and a very good reason for the admins to keep GM open!! __________________ The beuatiful mind/The beautiful heart/Doesn't deserve the pain/How can I stop the rain? -How Can I Stop the Rain? by Kessid, my new favorite band +Every good thing that comes into my life is only a reflection of the greatest gift of all; the offering of yourself, dear Son of God+ Always remember, you're uniqe, just like everybody else! "The one constant through all the years has been the Trombone. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again, but the Trombone has marked the time. This field, this section, this band is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again. Oh, people will come . . . people will most definitely come." Last edited by galadriel88 : 05-07-2002 at 10:37 PM.

05-10-2002, 08:00 AM	#8
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	You know, Galadriel 88, I m sure you shouldn't call bf/gf/husband/wife/ (the male/female thing) unconditional. There's always conditions! The first, that you love them back, and the list can go on quite a way after that. A husband/ wife thing could become unconditional I suppose, but it would take a very long time. At least 15 to 20 years. How quickly a bf/gf love thing changes is amazing, as soon a one dissapoints ,or lets the other down, the sands start shifting. I'm amazed many of those pre-arranged marriages worked in the past (and still do in some countries). __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 05-10-2002 at 08:05 AM.

05-10-2002, 11:19 AM	#10
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I always thought you sent yourself to hell. He doesn't have much to do with the bad choices you make. He is sad if you do, (make bad choices,or go to hell) because he loves you, but there is no such thing as Hell! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 05-10-2002 at 11:20 AM.

05-10-2002, 01:17 PM	#12
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Well, you send yourself to hell by making bad choices. Whether it's intentional or not, I don't know. I suppose a person could take this decision of how their choices affected their chance of going to Heaven or Hell as seriously as they wanted to. I believe most christians start with the fact that you accept Christ. After that there's as many different opinions as there are people and/or denominations. Don't ask me, I'm no expert. Personnally, I don't believe in the existance of Heaven or Hell as places,so my choices reflect a desire to be a good person and do the right thing. If this should land me in a place called Heaven, great, but I don't lose sleep over it. I kind of like that finding the christ in you concept. You know, you make your own Heaven or Hell for yourself. The Bible, in particular the old testement, is written by many different folk,in many different places and times. I certainly don't take it literally and don't get into Bible qoute discussions. Once again, there are a million different opinions, I think the Bible is a group of writings of different peoples, from other times that helped those people make sense of their world. I wish I had a more exciting reply, but" I don't really know" about covers it for me. __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 05-10-2002 at 01:43 PM.

05-11-2002, 12:08 AM	#13
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	soo wait, lemme get this straight, you don't believ in helll but you can send your self there??! wow what's the postage for that?! anyways. to be BACK ON TOPIC it is possible to love and hate someone at the same time (only not the ring and gollumish way??) lets say your friends. is it possible then? __________________

05-11-2002, 08:06 AM	#14
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	No, since I don't believe in Hell, I don't send myself there. I was just offering an explanation to Anduril of how the set up worked so he could get over the God/ no God thing! Do you think that will happen? I think if you really love someone, versus liking them alot, you don't really "hate" them, just get very irritated or hurt. It's scary when you get angry at someone you do love. Your emotions kind of get distorted like they are in a magnifing glass or something. The emotional centers in the brain must be very, very closly related , cause it really does get confusing when you are hurt or angry! I have found that the "Blood runs thicker than water" saying runs very true over time. If you would have told me this when I was in my twenties I would have said "No way!", but everything is always changing (except who you are related to). Have lots of fun with your friends now! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 05-11-2002 at 08:43 AM.

05-11-2002, 04:20 PM	#15
galadriel88 Halfwitted Queen of Lothlorien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Far off in a dream Posts: 1,166	1) Thanks for getting this back on topic, Luthien, I avoid the Theist and Anti theist threads for a reason. I only brought up the stuff about God's love to make a point about human love. Which brings me to... 2)Lizra: What I meant was that, even when you have fight and argue, and even though there are things you don't like about each other (quirks, habits, etc.), you still love each other. Period. I mean, you might get aggravated over something, but in the end it's okay and you still love each other, deep down. Also, you still love each other no matter what your financial situation is, or whether you're overweight or a supermodel, what matters to you is the person. That is what I meant by unconditional love. Also, about bfs/gfs: I don't believe that teenagers are capable of true and unconditional love. That is something that grows with wisdom, and time, and age. Now, young adults, as in 23 - 30somethings who have been dating for at least 4 years, may love each other like that, and definitely people that are married. I guess I should have made that clear. 3)Hate is a strong word. You can't love someone and hate them at the same time, but you can be in a fight with them, or even dislike them. __________________ The beuatiful mind/The beautiful heart/Doesn't deserve the pain/How can I stop the rain? -How Can I Stop the Rain? by Kessid, my new favorite band +Every good thing that comes into my life is only a reflection of the greatest gift of all; the offering of yourself, dear Son of God+ Always remember, you're uniqe, just like everybody else! "The one constant through all the years has been the Trombone. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again, but the Trombone has marked the time. This field, this section, this band is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again. Oh, people will come . . . people will most definitely come."

05-11-2002, 09:06 PM	#16
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	The more you love someone, the more you freak out when they hurt or dissapoint you, cause you've invested so much emotion in them. It might seem like love/hate. I agree Galadriel, hate is a very intense word, hopefully an emotion not to be experienced too often in a lifetime. I remember feeling that way about my father when I was a teen. Now I know how much he loved me! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

05-12-2002, 08:58 PM	#17
TinuvielChild Padawan Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Barony of Carolingia Posts: 2,176	I know how ya feel, Luthien, i have so many good friends that are seniors this year that are leaving in a few weeks, and some of them i'll never see again. Almost any kind of love can eventually be unconditional, given enough time. Sam/Frodo's love was completely platonic, and utterly unconditional. Sam was willing to give up his life for Frodo, and vice versa. Most of the rest of what i was going to say has already been voiced by various other Mooters, so i will shut up now. notice how i was able to sidestep the Bible issue? it's very easy: i know next to nothing about theology and therefore i don't discuss it. i wish other people could do the same, . __________________ There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!!

05-13-2002, 08:39 AM	#18
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I don't think I'll go there again! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Compulsory national service.	sisterandcousinandaunt	General Messages	16	03-14-2007 02:39 PM
Good, Better, Best . . .	webwizard333	Lord of the Rings Movies	24	11-17-2003 06:47 PM
What's the problem with parents and adults	jerseydevil	General Messages	34	05-15-2003 07:42 AM
(no subject)	N McRae	General Messages	39	10-23-2000 01:07 AM
Debate Subject	dunedain lady	General Messages	11	10-01-2000 03:55 PM