USA Politics

[Valandil]

I'll speak only to the "very fine people" (on both sides)

This is and has always been a grossly unfair representation of what President Trump was saying. When he used those words, he was NOT speaking of the racist element - but was talking about the people rallying to remove certain statues and those rallying to keep them.

He went on to specifically say that this did NOT include the racist elements who showed up.

The media never wants to tell us that or let us make the connection.

The full transcript of what he said is available online - or at least it still was a few months ago, when I looked it up.

This is just one example of the way our US media misrepresents President Trump. And they act like this on a daily - a constant - basis.

[Valandil]

Meanwhile - Joe Biden gets a pass for all of his CLEARLY racist comments - past and present.

Donald Trump was never considered a "racist" until he ran for President as a Republican. If Ted Cruz had won the Republican nomination and the Presidential Election in 2016 - he would have been painted every bit as much of a racist as Donald Trump was.

[Earniel]

I'm starting to feel that I must be missing some cultural subtext here, because of late I'm feeling like it is far more horrible to accuse someone of racism than for those people to say or do actual racist things.

Nor is IMO racism the worst thing one can be accused of. In Trump's case I can think of a few more things I find worse. (Re: kids in cages.)

I suspect that missing cultural subtext also has something to do with the fact that I do not get why it matters whether Trump is racist or not. (You're not the only one I've seen make a point of it, so this is not aimed at you specifically.)

I have not cared enough to invest actual study in whether Trump's a racist. I find him repulsive already regardless of the answer. The fact that he's seldom coherent certainly aids him in obscuring the actual issue or his stance on said issue. The "very fine people" thing was IMO one of those times. (I have already read that transcript, it's a confusing mess.) But he cleverly conflates a white-nationalist rally with other protests where indeed non-white-nationalists could have been present. Opening the way for everyone to accuse everyone else of misrepresentation when they don't not interpret Trump's ramblings the exact same way. It's certainly useful. And nicely devisive. And the ambiguity of 'very fine people' will happily continue to confuse the issue at hand, even now, years later.

Trump has sometimes condemned neo-nazis in interviews, yes, but to my knowledge he also never took steps to actually counteract them. And it's not as if he's powerless to do so.

And a lot of his politics have hurt those same minorities racists also like to hurt. People got killed. So either way one looks, Trump did racist things and he encouraged racist things. I remember him calling out the Proud Boys to stand back and stand by. Stand by! On national TV. They sure loved it. How is that not validating hate-groups?

No, I don't think Trump is just 'misunderstood'.

Also, I'm not sure how the 'but person B is more racist than person A' argument actually changes anything about person A's racism?

From what I can tell Ted Cruz supports kids in cages. A very fine person, I'm sure.

[Snowdog]

Oh dear. It is clear from your posts Val that you have taken the trumpshirtian drink and are in a serious conspiracy brain-mode. "Fake News", "Liberal Bias", etc. etc. Seriously? You really think that "the media" is out to get Donald Trump? Do you even listen to what he says? Did you not see and hear him make fun of a reporter with a disability? Did you not see and hear him tell The Proud Boys to "Stand Back and Stand By"? or is all that run through the filter and let out with serious anti-trump spin? Incredible....

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Valandil

If Ted Cruz had won the Republican nomination and the Presidential Election in 2016 - he would have been painted every bit as much of a racist as Donald Trump was.

I was just thinking of this yesterday as before your comment Ted Cruz hadn't come on my radar a lot and I had to look him up. Now this week alone I've seen three new seperate ways already in which I think he's an incompetent jerk and I wasn't even searching for it.

Which makes me wonder, who are the decent republican politicians? I mean, there have got to be some, right?

I know I tend to think badly of most politicians, foreign and domestic. And while I do not think they need to be perfect, there have been some examples lately where I even wonder whether they're capable of basic human decency. (This is not a dig at Trump alone, even though it certainly applies. I have just read an article on a local corruption case and it left me ranting at the wall. )

It's frightfully easy to demonise entire groups on the other side of the spectrum but well, in the case of the USA (as it plays out in front of an international audience) I really want to believe not all of them support insurrection, kids in cages, police violence and unbridled comporate greed.

So which are the ones that don't?

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Which makes me wonder, who are the decent republican politicians? I mean, there have got to be some, right?

I'd give credit to these 17 even if I think a lot of their politics stink:
Liz Cheney of Wyoming
John Katko of New York
Adam Kinzinger of Illinoi
Anthony Gonzalez of Ohio
Tom Rice of South Carolina
David Valadao of California
Fred Upton and Peter Meijer of Michigan
Jamie Herrera Beutler and Dan Newhouse, both from Washington Stste.
Richard Burr of North Carolina
Bill Cassidy of Louisiana
Susan Collins of Maine
Lisa Murkowski of Alaska
Mitt Romney of Utah
Ben Sasse of Nebraska
Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania

The rest of the party, and especially those of CPAC, are bankrupt trumpshirts.

And it appears the Republicans are arguing that the only way they can "win" is via voter suppression.

[HOBBIT]

Originally Posted by Valandil

I'll speak only to the "very fine people" (on both sides)

This is and has always been a grossly unfair representation of what President Trump was saying. When he used those words, he was NOT speaking of the racist element - but was talking about the people rallying to remove certain statues and those rallying to keep them.

He went on to specifically say that this did NOT include the racist elements who showed up.

The media never wants to tell us that or let us make the connection.

The full transcript of what he said is available online - or at least it still was a few months ago, when I looked it up.

This is just one example of the way our US media misrepresents President Trump. And they act like this on a daily - a constant - basis.

But were there actually any "fine people" on the side of the white nationalists? Don't seem to have been. He latched onto the statue thing, but it was primarily a white supremacist event -- VERY openly so.

They were chanting "Jews will not replace us" and other vile things. Where were the fine people? I saw none.

That's why people took issue with it. A woman had just been murdered by one of the white supremacists and Trump was talking about blame on both sides and fine people? What?

His remarks were, of course, taken live in their entirety at the time.

And here's an example of how it was reported soon afterwards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI2qinhxWPQ

It includes exactly what you seem to think wasn't.