Saruman's power after having been cast from the Order

afro-elf · 10-18-2011, 11:54 PM

In the Palantir chapter Gandalf says something to the effect that Saruman was still powerful enough to resist the Nine while he was still in Orthanc and the could try to trap (the) Nazgul.

That sounds still pretty powerful to me.

afro-elf · 10-21-2011, 08:10 PM

I guess I should have said," Are there any thoughts on how powerful he still was and how he could have trapped a Nazgul?"

Noble Elf Lord · 10-22-2011, 08:48 AM

My thoughts on trapping a Nazgûl... Crazy wizard! o_O Likely with a fire ring, though... But when he runs out of stuff to burn... Oo, it's a hide-and-seek in Orthanc... O.O

***Valandil*** · 10-22-2011, 06:40 PM

As we saw later, I think his principal remaining power was the effect of his voice. But it was potent indeed!

afro-elf · 10-23-2011, 05:22 PM

I think that Gandalf said something to the effect of, " While still in Orthanc he had power to be dangerous" So maybe through Saruman's devices he may have trapped them. Or least hold them at bay.

Attalus · 10-24-2011, 03:22 PM

I agree that, saving always the power of his voice, the powers alluded to were inherent in Orthanc. Hence the squabble over the Key.

GrayMouser · 10-25-2011, 05:08 AM

I think it's a combination- we know from the attack of the Ents that Orthanc is almost impregnable, but that wouldn't have enabled him to trap a Nazgul.
Saruman is a great contriver, so I'd assume he would have invented all sorts of devices for his own defence- things that he couldn't have taken away with him.

***Valandil*** · 10-25-2011, 10:19 PM

Gandalf himself had been trapped in Orthanc - so he has some idea of what kinds of traps might be sprung there. And would know that he possibly only saw a small sampling.

Tinman · 04-13-2012, 10:18 AM

I thought that his powers were really gone... that, while his "voice" was still amongst his assets, it was because he was a liar and really good at getting others to do as he wanted, but not super naturally so. Maybe I just viewed that from the wrong angle... but it would be interesting to know what a wizard could actually do without his staff... or what the staff actually did for the wizard... now that I think about it... where did the staffs even come from?

10-18-2011, 11:54 PM	#1
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Saruman's power after having been cast from the Order In the Palantir chapter Gandalf says something to the effect that Saruman was still powerful enough to resist the Nine while he was still in Orthanc and the could try to trap (the) Nazgul. That sounds still pretty powerful to me. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

10-21-2011, 08:10 PM	#2
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I guess I should have said," Are there any thoughts on how powerful he still was and how he could have trapped a Nazgul?" __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

10-22-2011, 08:48 AM	#3
Noble Elf Lord Leaf-Crowned Lord Of Elvenpath Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Heaven by the looks of it. Hell by the feel of it. Posts: 1,052	My thoughts on trapping a Nazgûl... Crazy wizard! o_O Likely with a fire ring, though... But when he runs out of stuff to burn... Oo, it's a hide-and-seek in Orthanc... O.O __________________ Hers.

10-22-2011, 06:40 PM	#4
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	As we saw later, I think his principal remaining power was the effect of his voice. But it was potent indeed! __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

10-23-2011, 05:22 PM	#5
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I think that Gandalf said something to the effect of, " While still in Orthanc he had power to be dangerous" So maybe through Saruman's devices he may have trapped them. Or least hold them at bay. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

10-24-2011, 03:22 PM	#6
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	I agree that, saving always the power of his voice, the powers alluded to were inherent in Orthanc. Hence the squabble over the Key. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

10-25-2011, 05:08 AM	#7
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	I think it's a combination- we know from the attack of the Ents that Orthanc is almost impregnable, but that wouldn't have enabled him to trap a Nazgul. Saruman is a great contriver, so I'd assume he would have invented all sorts of devices for his own defence- things that he couldn't have taken away with him. __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

10-25-2011, 10:19 PM	#8
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Gandalf himself had been trapped in Orthanc - so he has some idea of what kinds of traps might be sprung there. And would know that he possibly only saw a small sampling. __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

04-13-2012, 10:18 AM	#9
Tinman Enting Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 68	I thought that his powers were really gone... that, while his "voice" was still amongst his assets, it was because he was a liar and really good at getting others to do as he wanted, but not super naturally so. Maybe I just viewed that from the wrong angle... but it would be interesting to know what a wizard could actually do without his staff... or what the staff actually did for the wizard... now that I think about it... where did the staffs even come from?

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