The Captivity of Maedhros

[AndMorgothCame.]

While a captive of Melkor off the peaks of Thangorodrim, Maedhros somehow lived for years hanging literally by his wrist, which was bound to the precipice by unbreakable metal. Later told, he was saved by his cousin Fingon, for which the latter grew renown. I remember reading it was around 24-32 years Maedhros was hung by his wrist. As well, Elves can go very long without food, if they even need to eat regularly at all? (I know they have no regular sleep patterns) Can you imagine such an excruciating pain? When I wake up with an arm or a leg still asleep, I can hardly stand it!
My main questions are: Exactly how long did Maedhros hang from the cliff face, and how did he survive without food and water? Or if he was fed, who did it? Morgoth knows no pity, but perhaps he kept him alive to keep the torture going.
Let me hear your theories/facts.

[Valandil]

Wow AMC, that's interesting! Do you know where you read about it being a matter of years? I didn't get that from the text in The Silmarillion at all. I just assumed it was a matter of at least weeks - maybe months. But never thought in terms of years. Is that in the HoME series?

Makes me think in some ways of the torment of Prometheus in Greek Mythology.

[Alcuin]

Here’s a synopsis of the telling of this in Silmarillion.

In the chapter “Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor” the moon arose when Fingolfin first set foot upon Middle-earth, and after 7 transits of the moon (“days”), the sun arose.

In the chapter “Of the Return of the Noldor” it says that Dagor-nuin-Giliath, the Battle-under-Stars, was fought for ten days just before the moon rose. (I suppose that in this context, “ten days” means the length of time soon marked by ten passages of the sun.) At the end of the battle, Fëanor rode to the Gates of Angband and was mortally wounded by Gothmog Lord of the Balrogs. His sons rescued him, but he died, whereupon Morgoth offered an embassy, parley, and even a ransom of one Silmaril. Maedhros convinced his brothers to attend: both sides came armed for battle, but the sons of Fëanor were overcome, Maedhros captured, and set in an iron band to the cliffs of Thangorodrim.

At this point, Fingolfin arrived in Middle-earth and the moon arose; we already know that 7 “days” later, the sun arose. The Noldor remained divided between the followers of Fëanor and the rest of the Noldor under Fingolfin, separated from one another by Lake Mithrim. Fingon decided to look for Maedhros, climbed Thangorodrim, but could not find his closest friend and first cousin. So he did the obvious thing for an Elf-lord: he took out his harp and sang. Maedhros heard him and sang along, and that’s how Fingon found him. Unable to free Maedhros, Fingon prayed to Manwë as he prepared to shoot Maedhros with an arrow. Manwë responded by sending Thorondor King of Eagles, who lifted Fingon to Maedhros. Still unable to free Maedhros, Fingon cut his arm free at the wrist.

As best I can tell, there are three indeterminate passages of time in this part of the narrative.

1. Between the capture of Maedhros and the arrival of Fingolfin and concurrent rising of the moon. The text moves immediately from one to the other without any interruption. While not conclusive, that appears to indicate the one event followed hard upon the other. We should not imagine that it took Fingolfin very long to reach Mithrim: only a few days or weeks at most seem to me the most logical assessment.
2. The length of time the two camps of the Noldor stared at one another across Lake Mithrim. This seems to have been some longer period, though how long is not described. After a while, Fingon learned that Maedhros had been captured and began looking for him. This surely means that several days, possibly several weeks or even a few months, passed before Fingon began his search; but it doesn’t seem to have been years.
3. Fingon clambered up Thangorodrim. How long this took goes likewise undescribed. It might have been many days, many weeks, or even many months. It does not seem to me to have been years.

Bracketing this is the ten-day long Battle-under-Stars and the rescue of Maedhros (and Fingon) by Thorondor, which probably took a few hours at most once Fingon discovered Maedhros.

I think these are all the possible “long” periods. If it took 24–32 years for Fingon to find and reach Maedhros, I think these three periods would constitute all that time. I could certainly be mistaken, but The Silmarillion text seems to me to indicate that these events followed naturally one after another with little or no time between them, and my sense from the reading is that they all transpired in a fairly short time as well. I could be wrong, but this all seems to have taken place fairly swiftly: a few weeks or perhaps a few months at most.

Originally Posted by Valandil

Do you know where you read about it being a matter of years? .. Is that in the HoME series?

Do you remember where you read this or how you reached this conclusion, AndMorgothCame.? You could be right…

Originally Posted by Valandil

Makes me think in some ways of the torment of Prometheus in Greek Mythology.

I had never before considered the Promethean symbolism here.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

:
:
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I had never before considered the Promethean symbolism here.

Only in this story, the eagle is helpful - not part of the punishment.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

1. ...
2. The length of time the two camps of the Noldor stared at one another across Lake Mithrim. This seems to have been some longer period, though how long is not described. After a while, Fingon learned that Maedhros had been captured and began looking for him. This surely means that several days, possibly several weeks or even a few months, passed before Fingon began his search; but it doesn’t seem to have been years.

If it took years, I think that this would be the period that lasted for years. A period of a staring contest between the Noldor is more likely to last for years than the others.

I seem to remember something about years as well, and if so, it must have been from HoME somewhere - sorry I can't be more helpful than that.

But I agree that the way the Silmarillion tells about it, it needn't necessarily have been a matter of years.

[Alcuin]

Your memories are certainly better than mine, AndMorgothCame. and Varnafindë.

Spurred on by your recollections, I searched War of the Jewels, and from the information set forth in “Grey Annals”, I must agree.

Maidros (Maedhros) was captured by Morgoth in the entry for Valerian Year (VY) 1497. There are then entries for VY 1498 and VY 1500, when Fingolfin reached Middle-earth with the greater part of the Noldor and the moon and sun arose. Fingon resolved to rescue Maedhros (spelled variously in the entry both Maidros and Maiðros) in the Year of the Sun (YS) 5.

I think I recall that a Valerian Year was longer than a Year of the Sun. I shall leave the exercise of calculating a better estimate of the length of time that elapsed (in Years of the Sun!) to others.

[Galin]

pronounced May-Throse

The first part is rather as in English eye. It's really a combination of the individual vowels a - e (Note on Pronunciation, The Children of Hurin) 'but may be pronounced in the same was as AI' Concerning -th- (just to note it) it is pronounced as in English then (not thin for example), hence -dh-. For the vowel o see The Return of the King Appendices or The Road Goes Ever On -- or for the whole thing rather, Christopher Tolkien pronounces this name on CD.

As Alcuin notes, Maedros was captured before Sun Year reckoning. A Valian Year = 9.582 Sun Years. At one point Tolkien imagined a Valian Year = 144 Sun Years (see notes 4 and 5 to Text XI in Myths Transformed, Morgoth's Ring), however who knows what he would have altered had he used this for the chronology already written, so I imagine the smaller number. As noted...

1498 Maedros hung by the wrist

1500 in 1500 Fingolfin set foot upon the Northern Lands with the first moon-rise, and the Sun arose -- according to the Annals of Aman -- and this is also noted under Year 1 of the Sun in The Grey Annals.

Year 5 (Sun Year of course) rescue of Maedros.

So yes, a while!

[Valandil]

Wow - so by that record, AMC's estimate of 24-32 years could be right on, depending on just when in the year 1498 that he was strung up, and just when in the year 1500 the sun came up.

[Galin]

Incidentally, the external history of this character's name can get a bit confusing. In the Noldorin of the Etymologies period, the name appears as Maidhros and meant 'pale-glitter (glitter of metal)'. This was roughly the idea in the late 1930s or around this time (passing over the variations in Etymologies itself that were later reported in Vinyar Tengwar).

I don't know what Tolkien intended Maedhros to mean later; he may have imagined the same meaning and just never got around to setting out the details on paper in a Sindarin context (that I know of so far, and if I understand things correctly here, that is).

We do know that the late form Maedros had a different etymology and was supposed to contain elements meaning 'shapely + red-haired (reddish-brown haired)' -- containing elements of Maitimo (mother-name) and Russandol (epesse). Christopher Tolkien chose Maedhros for the published Silmarillion of course, and Tolkien considered a form Maedron as well, according to a late note.

By the way my earlier quote was supposed to read: 'but may be pronounced in the same way as AI'

Oops

[AndMorgothCame.]

Valandil and others, I certainly remember reading the amount of years spanning his torment to be exceedingly long, and I think I came across this information by using a war timeline, similar to how Galin came up with the amount of years. But it certainly was NOT in the Silmarillion, though pieces of info could be deduced from that book. I wish I could keep a note on all my sources, but with all the damn glorious information Tolkien has for us, it is hard to keep citations, as I'm sure you all can agree.
I'll keep looking, but for now, I suppose Galin's text is best to use.

[Galin]

The sources (that Alcuin used as well), are The Annals of Aman and The Grey Annals (in Morgoth's Ring and War of the Jewels). Of the other extant chronology, The Tale of Years, Christopher Tolkien notes that it is of little independent value (in parts), since he had already given the Annals, both Aman and Grey.

He does reveal that The Tale of Years notes VY 1500: 'Fingolfin and Inglor cross the Straits of Ice' which agrees with The Grey Annals. But this must mean that in this 'year' they completed the Crossing (see below).

VY 1500

'In this time Fingolfin and those that followed him crossed the grinding ice of Helkaraxe, and so came at last with great woe and loss into the north of Endar; and their hearts were filled with bitterness. And even as they set foot upon Middle-earth, the ages of the Stars were ended, and the time of the Sun and Moon began, as is told in the Chronicle of Aman.

YS1

Here the Moon and the Sun, wrought by the Valar after the death of the Trees, rose new in the heaven. (...)

JRRT, The Grey Annals

____________________

The Grey Annals also note that in VY 1497: 'In that same year of the Valar (but some seven years after in the later reckoning of time) Feanor came over Sea in the white ships of the Teleri, and landed in the firth of Drengist, and there burned the ships at Losgar.'

In The Annals of Aman, in 1497 the Noldor came at last into the North of Arda and knew that they were drawing nigh to the Helkaraxe. Feanor steals the ships and Fingolfin does not begin the passing of the ice until sometime after he sees the light of the burning ships.

So the passing of the ice appears to begin in 1497, with Fingolfin setting foot in Middle-earth in 1500.

[Valandil]

Also makes for a longer crossing of the Helkaraxe than I had ever imagined (I don't own more than a couple of the HoME volumes). But I believe the size of the 'world' was much greater then, wasn't it? And, wow! Those 'elven eyes' must have seen a long, LONG way for that one!!!

[Willow Oran]

Seriously. Somewhere in those histories, there's a generation of elves who grew up on a diet of seal meat...

[AndMorgothCame.]

That's right Willow. In fact, Ulmo was a seal clubber himself, and would prepare the meat for the Elves while they camped at Cuivienen.

[Earniel]

Wait, Ulmo was Canadian?

[Varnafindë]

Or Norwegian?

[AndMorgothCame.]

Ulmo worked for Exxon.

[Peregrina_Took]

Maedhros: Well, actually, it wasn't that bad. At first, I was really bored. Then I started making shadow puppets on the rocks behind me. I was the shadow puppet king! But it's hard to make shadow puppets with only one hand, so after a while, I quit. But then, the rocks started talking to me, and everything was OK.

Fingon: Yeah...Let's get you some medicine, shall we?