I hate Turin

As for no one has battled a Balrog and survived... Well, Fingolfin didn't survive his combat with Morgoth, Elendil and Gil-galad didn't survive their encounter with Sauron, and Glorfindel didn't survive his fight witha Balrog.

So saying "No one has survived combat witha Balrog" doesn't say much regards to comparative strength of Morgoth, Sauron or Balrogs... people who go up against any of them get killed regardless .

I'll try to find time to respond to this, but I can't tonight. Just letting you know I will.

Doo be doo be dooo.....La la la la la..... fa la lala la lally loooo....Hmmm mmmmm... hommm hoooo......*YAWN*.......:/ ??Earendil was a submarinerthat tarried in ArvernienHe built a U-boat in NimbrethilTo torpedo Morgoth's boats inI really should quit smoking these athelas joints....

This is how it reads in Of Eldamar And The Princes Of Eldalië:

'Finwë was the king of the Noldor. The sons of Finwë were Fëanor, and Fingolfin, and Finarfin; but the mother of Fingolfin was MÃ*riel Serindë, whereas the mother of Fingolfin and Finarfin was Indis of the Vanyar.
Fëanor was the mightiest in skill of word and of hand, more learned than his brothers; his spirit burned as a flame. Fingolfin was the strongest, the most steadfast, and the most valiant. Finarfin was the fairest, and the most wise of heart[...].'

This is how I remembered the three. Wherever it says Fëanor is the mightiest elf ever to have been (or to be), I don't think it applies to his strength in battle.

Fëanor is mighty in the sense that he is complete. He is a philosopher, a scientist, an artist, a warrior. He is also very eloquent, able to win the trust of many people.
It's all these things that make him mighty. (It's also these things that gave him a slight ego problem... But Manwë forgive, how boring Arda would be without him!)

Fingolfin has to be the most proficient in battle. There's not even a hint of doubt. Defied the most powerful vala, and stood up to him, even inflicted permanent wounds on his being! I have never questioned this: High King Fingolfin is the strongest of elves.

*bows*

Angloril Bragollach
The Sudden Dragon

'Fingolfin has to be the most proficient in battle. There's not even a hint of doubt.'

Well actually there is much doubt, only in one place does it describe Fingolfin being mightier in battle than Feanor as opposed to many instances where Feanor is mightier.

'For Feanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Illuvitar, and a bright flame was in him.'

That quote at the least puts him above Fingolfin.

What I make of the 'Princes of the Eldalie' is this:

By that time in the 3 brother's life they were different to what they'd be later on. Fingolfin spent much of his time fighting as opposed to Feanor who spent all his time crafting. Only when Feanor turned his mind to war did his skill in battle appear and possibly develop.

"
By that time in the 3 brother's life they were different to what they'd be later on. Fingolfin spent much of his time fighting as opposed to Feanor who spent all his time crafting. Only when Feanor turned his mind to war did his skill in battle appear and possibly develop.
"

Surely there wasn't much fighting in Valinor? It was banned, and Feanor even got exiled from Tuna just for pointing a sword at... I forget whom. THey only got combat experience when they got to Beleriand.

I meant that Fingolfin went hunting with Orome a lot which is a form of fighting I suppose.

Were you waiting for me easterlinge? Don't. That way when I say something, 'wow' will spring to mind, rather than 'it's about time!'. It works out very well for me.

[afro-elf]

I hate Turin

yeah me too

he had this shroud and it turned out to be fake

[MasterMothra]

feanor was the greater elf, fingolfin was the greater warrior.
i like sauron, but morgoth was greater. after all he was a valar. i personnally feel that isildur was the greatest man, and had a greater impact than any of the mortals(i could be wrong just an opinion).

[Ararax]

hurin battled a balrog but lost but didnt die but was taken captive. the balrog let him slice through his troll body guard because he was afraid of him, which says somethign about his strength, and he was considered the greatest human warrior

[afro-elf]

were is that from?

[Ñólendil]

He probably was the greatest warrior of Men. Hurin didn't exactly battle any Balrog, though. He did kill 70 (I think that's how many) Trolls of Gothmog's body guard.

[afro-elf]

1)how was he taken captive

Well actually there is much doubt, only in one place does it describe Fingolfin being mightier in battle than Feanor as opposed to many instances where Feanor is mightier.

'For Feanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Illuvitar, and a bright flame was in him.'

I see it in gaming terms

feanor was maxed out in attributes but was the better warrior

skills I take to mean " crafts" BUT you COULD argue in skill i any pursuit


what does understanding mean? quick to grasp things? I doubt it means wisdom.

I would that fearnor was the UNDISPUTED polymath.

But Fingolfin was the better warrior.

I don't take this to mean that feanor couldn't fight but i think his rage would betray him. as the way he was killed getting carried away chasing the foe. Not very understading there i would say.

does strength mean inner strength or bodily might ?

words are arbitrary and without tolkien around who was a gifted word smith its are too say what he meant

[Ararax]

from memory because i dont have the sim with me hurin sliced through gothmogs bodyguard and was weried by them and was captured by gothmog who feared him and let him tire himself on his body guard, if this is wrong please correct me but i dont know how he could have been captured by gothmog with out some combat

[Nibs]

Around page 238 of the Silmarillion (my edition, any way).

From memory... a little rough, I'm sure:

Last of all Hurin stood alone. He threw aside his shield and wielded an axe two handed. It is sung that the axe smoked black in the blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered. Each time he slew, he called "Aure entuluva!" or "Day shall come again!" Seventy times he uttered that cry. Finally he was overcome, bound, and dragged to Mordor by Gothmog.

It didn't mention him tiring, but rather being overcome by the sheer number of orcs.

[afro-elf]

To mordor?


I see you are from utah are you mormon?

[Nibs]

Yes, indeedy... I am. But not, however, from Utah, but rather in Utah. Attending school.

May not be to Mordor. Let me check... nope. Nevermind.

"Then Gothmog bound him and dragged him to Angband with mockery."

Angband. Yowza! I quoted that pretty darn well from memory (except for the Mordor part).