The Watchers of Cirith Ungol

[jammi567]

Did anyone find it odd that there were Watchers there. i mean, if they were there during the Gondorians being there, then how did the Uriks and Orcs get through and yet, i can't see the orcs building something like that just to defend a disused watch post.

Someone help me put please.

[Alcuin]

The Watchers at the gate of the Tower of Cirith Ungol were clearly put there by Sauron or his minions, not the Dúnedain of Gondor. When he first encountered them, Sam realized that “some dreadful spirit of evil vigilance abode in them” (Return of the King, “Tower of Cirith Ungol”). They “had vulture-faces, and … clawlike hands. … The black stones of their eyes” were full of “malice [that] made [Sam] quail.” The Watchers were afraid of the light of Eärendil captured in the phial of Galadriel. None of those things sounds as if they might be of even the slightest good, but all of evil and malignancy.

Nor were these the likely only statues of this sort that Sam and Frodo encountered. Gorbag told Shagrat that at Minas Morgul, “‘…our Silent Watchers were uneasy more than two days ago’” (Two Towers, “Choices of Master Samwise”), meaning that they had sensed the passage of the hobbits as they climbed the stairs leading to Cirith Ungol. These might (might, mind you – I am not claiming that they are) be the figures at the bridge that crossed the Morgulduin leading to Minas Morgul (ibid., “Stairs of Cirith Ungol”):

From mead to mead the bridge sprang. Figures stood there at its head, carven with cunning in forms human and bestial, but all corrupt and loathsome.

Even if these “figures … carven with cunning in forms human and bestial” were not Gorbag’s “Silent Watchers,” I think that his reference was to something very similar to what Sam discovered at the gate of the Tower of Cirith Ungol.

The idea that there was a “dreadful spirit of evil vigilance [that] abode in them” suggests that the Watchers were works of necromancy, Sauron’s day job that earned him his nickname for most of the Third Age, “The Necromancer.”

The Tower of Cirith Ungol was far from being a “disused watch post.” In the first place, the tower still served the ancient purpose for which the Dúnedain had constructed it during their war with Sauron at the end of the Second Age: to prevent escape from Mordor; and then as a final defense against unauthorized entry. (Citation from “Tower of Cirith Ungol”)

…this stronghold had been built not to keep enemies out of Mordor, but to keep them in. It was indeed one of the works of Gondor long ago, an eastern outpost of the defenses of Ithilien, made when, after the Last Alliance, Men of Westernesse kept watch on the evil land of Sauron where his creatures still lurked. … treachery had yielded up the Tower to the Lord of the Ringwraiths… Sauron had found it useful; for he had … many slaves of fear, and still its chief purpose as of old was to prevent escape from Mordor. Though if an enemy were so rash as to try to enter that land secretly, then it was also a last unsleeping guard against any that might pass the vigilance of Morgul and of Shelob.

There was a strong garrison there under the command of Shagrat, who was in turn under the command of Minas Morgul, just as the Dúnedain commander of the tower long before had been under the command of Minas Ithil.

[Gordis]

I agree with Alcuin that the Watchers were clearly not Gondorian invention. Most likely the statues were put there by the Witch-King during his 1000 years rule of Minas Morgul. The same way as he sent evil spirits to inhabit the Barrows, he could send others to inhabit watch statues. Both Cirith Ungol and Minas Morgul were in nazgul's hands since 2002.

We don't know whether there were Watchers in Barad Dur or in Durthang or at the Morannon. At the latter place there were probably none : at least they are not mentioned in the passage about the hobbits passing by. So, maybe it was the Witch-King's know-how, not Sauron's.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

There was a strong garrison [at Cirith Ungol] under the command of Shagrat, who was in turn under the command of Minas Morgul, just as the Dúnedain commander of the tower long before had been under the command of Minas Ithil.

I disagree that Cirith Ungol in TA 3019 was under the command of the Morgul Lord. The Ungol orcs were ordered to report to Barad-Dur and to Barad-Dur only, not to Minas Morgul. Orcs of Ungol wore the badge of the Eye, while those of Minas Morgul wore the Witch-King's personal badge: "the Moon disfigured by a face of death". Also Morgul orcs had arms of better workmanship than in Ungol. Clearly they were under different chain of command.

I think since Sauron returned to Mordor (2942-51), Cirith Ungol became directly answerable to Barad-Dur, while Minas Morgul remained the Witch-King's personal fortress.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Gordis

I disagree that Cirith Ungol in TA 3019 was under the command of the Morgul Lord. The Ungol orcs were ordered to report to Barad-Dur... Clearly they were under different chain of command.

I think since Sauron returned to Mordor (2942-51), Cirith Ungol became directly answerable to Barad-Dur, while Minas Morgul remained the Witch-King's personal fortress.

I stand corrected.

[Landroval]

The Ungol orcs were ordered to report to Barad-Dur and to Barad-Dur only, not to Minas Morgul.

Then again, this may be explained by something particular to this situation: a unit in charge of a certain area receives orders from higher up - not something unusual in times of war, esspecially with a paranoid leader, dealing with the object of his obsession. I would also note that the Ungol orcs of Shagrat were ordered out on the stairs because the nazgul fealt uneasy - cf The choices of master Samwise. To me, this means that they reported to the nazgul, who would send them out on a whim - although the signs identifying each unit is a thorny subject for this interpretation.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Landroval

Then again, this may be explained by something particular to this situation: a unit in charge of a certain area receives orders from higher up - not something unusual in times of war, esspecially with a paranoid leader, dealing with the object of his obsession. .

In one of the older threads CAB has demonstrated quite convincingly that Shagrat's orders were standing orders - not dealing with this particular situation. Sauron had NO idea that anyone would try to smuggle the One Ring into Mordor.

Originally Posted by Landroval

I would also note that the Ungol orcs of Shagrat were ordered out on the stairs because the nazgul fealt uneasy - cf The choices of master Samwise. To me, this means that they reported to the nazgul, who would send them out on a whim - although the signs identifying each unit is a thorny subject for this interpretation.

No it was not like that at all, IMO. The nazgul reported to Barad Dur and couldn't get the attention of the Eye for quite some time. Then the message got through and Gorbag was sent from Minas Morgul to patrol the stairs. Then, finally, BaradDur sent orders to Shagrat at Ungol "Nazgûl uneasy. Spies feared on Stairs. Double vigilance. Patrol to head of Stairs." And the two detachments met at the head of the opening of the tunnel.

As for the badges you said it yourself - it contradicts your interpretation.