Balrogs, and where?

Bilbo · 02-07-2002, 08:18 AM

Where do Balrogs come from?

Twilight · 02-07-2002, 11:15 AM

They are Maia who chose to follow the path of evil. Another interesting question would be, since Sauruman was technicaly maia, could he have turned himself into a balrog if he had wanted to?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 02-07-2002, 11:16 AM

Balrogs were evil Maiar, or fallen Maiar if you will. In the First age of the world Balrogs served the Dark Lord Morgoth, and allied with his forces against the Eldar and Men. The Balrog Gothmog was his High Captian. It seems that some were killed, if that's possible at the end of the First age, and their ranks appear to have dwindled. By the Third Age, I only know of the Balrog in Moria being the only one left, but I may be wrong about that.

bropous · 02-07-2002, 11:33 AM

The Balrogs, which come in winged, non-winged and jetpack assisted, sprang directly from the thigh of Morgoth, the Great Enemy. They are rumored to be the spawn of Morgoth and Ungoliant the Great, who injected an egg pod into Morgoth after the Fall of Aman. The Balrogs were born on probation and immediately took to graffitti and mumblety-peg, and attempted to overthrow Morgoth in FA 331, but were beaten by Sauron and the dragons in a counter-coup known as "the Great Head Bashing". Thenceforth Balrogs were assigned to "picking up the place" around Angbad, had to serve sixty-four hundred hours of community service and four hundred thousand hours of anger management classes.

***********sarcasm off****************

Okay. VERY SIMPLISTIC EXPLANTION: The world was created from the Music of the Ainur, who were spirits who dwelt with the supreme being, Iluvatar. He showed the Ainur a vision of the world he was going to create, and many of the spirits with him decided they wanted to go into the world and dwell therein, helping his vision develop. The most powerful of these spirits, who would be the "gods" [sic] of Middle Earth, were called the Valar; along with them came lesser spirits called the Maiar, who were essentially the "angels". The greatest of the Valar, Morgoth, was the original Dark Lord of Middle-Earth, and he worked to pervert the vision of Iluvatar to his own ends. He corrupted some of the Maiar to assist him in waging war upon the creations of Iluvatar and upon the works of the Valar, and some of those who came to him were fire-spirits:

"For of the Maiar many were drawn to his [Morgoth's] splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into his darkness; and others he corrupted to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. Dreadful among these spirits were the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-Earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror. [The Silmarillion, page, 26]

As for where Sauron came from, the next paragraph tells us:

"Among those of his servants that have names was that spirit whom the eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In the beginning he was of the Maiar of Aule [one of the three mightiest Valar], and he remained mighty in the lore of that people [the creation of things, crafts, making]. In all the deeds of [Morgoth] upon [Middle earth], in his vast arts and the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than hsi master in that for long he served another and not himslf. But in after years he rose like a shadown of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void." [Silmarillion, page 26]

Hope this helps you out!

ragamuffin92 · 02-07-2002, 11:40 AM

All I could find about other Balrogs existing was in the Sil. chapter, "Of the Voyage of Earendil," p. 251.
"The Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth;" So, while it doesn't say for sure that any were left, it was possible.

Ñólendil · 02-07-2002, 05:48 PM

That passage about 'some few' surviving was written before Tolkien decided there were 'three or (say) at most seven of them [Balrogs]' altogether. With only seven Balrogs (or three), I don't think more than one survived the War of Wrath.

GreySeason · 02-07-2002, 06:12 PM

and of those seven[or three] it is know that some of them allied together. they journeyed to the Grey Haven to seek to follow the Elves across the seas into the West. but their poorly made ships sailed them not into the West but to Earth (where we live). and the Balrogs were so angered by this that they created Rap.

The White Rider · 02-14-2002, 12:56 PM

One of the remaining Balrogs (After the War of Wrath) slept under one of the mountains of Moria, until the Drawfs delved to deep and awoke it. It met its "near" end when it fought Gandalf on the Bridge of Kazad-Dhum.

02-07-2002, 08:18 AM	#1
Bilbo Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Last Homely House Posts: 52	Balrogs, and where? Where do Balrogs come from?

02-07-2002, 11:15 AM	#2
Twilight Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wilmore, KY Posts: 269	They are Maia who chose to follow the path of evil. Another interesting question would be, since Sauruman was technicaly maia, could he have turned himself into a balrog if he had wanted to? __________________ Sometimes I wonder how many monkeys with typewritters it would take to reproduce what I just wrote.

02-07-2002, 11:33 AM	#4
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	The Balrogs, which come in winged, non-winged and jetpack assisted, sprang directly from the thigh of Morgoth, the Great Enemy. They are rumored to be the spawn of Morgoth and Ungoliant the Great, who injected an egg pod into Morgoth after the Fall of Aman. The Balrogs were born on probation and immediately took to graffitti and mumblety-peg, and attempted to overthrow Morgoth in FA 331, but were beaten by Sauron and the dragons in a counter-coup known as "the Great Head Bashing". Thenceforth Balrogs were assigned to "picking up the place" around Angbad, had to serve sixty-four hundred hours of community service and four hundred thousand hours of anger management classes. *********sarcasm off************** Okay. VERY SIMPLISTIC EXPLANTION: The world was created from the Music of the Ainur, who were spirits who dwelt with the supreme being, Iluvatar. He showed the Ainur a vision of the world he was going to create, and many of the spirits with him decided they wanted to go into the world and dwell therein, helping his vision develop. The most powerful of these spirits, who would be the "gods" [sic] of Middle Earth, were called the Valar; along with them came lesser spirits called the Maiar, who were essentially the "angels". The greatest of the Valar, Morgoth, was the original Dark Lord of Middle-Earth, and he worked to pervert the vision of Iluvatar to his own ends. He corrupted some of the Maiar to assist him in waging war upon the creations of Iluvatar and upon the works of the Valar, and some of those who came to him were fire-spirits: "For of the Maiar many were drawn to his [Morgoth's] splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into his darkness; and others he corrupted to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. Dreadful among these spirits were the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-Earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror. [The Silmarillion, page, 26] As for where Sauron came from, the next paragraph tells us: "Among those of his servants that have names was that spirit whom the eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In the beginning he was of the Maiar of Aule [one of the three mightiest Valar], and he remained mighty in the lore of that people [the creation of things, crafts, making]. In all the deeds of [Morgoth] upon [Middle earth], in his vast arts and the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than hsi master in that for long he served another and not himslf. But in after years he rose like a shadown of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void." [Silmarillion, page 26] Hope this helps you out! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. Last edited by bropous : 02-07-2002 at 11:36 AM.

02-07-2002, 11:40 AM	#5
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	Oh, Sister Golden Hair Surprise... All I could find about other Balrogs existing was in the Sil. chapter, "Of the Voyage of Earendil," p. 251. "The Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth;" So, while it doesn't say for sure that any were left, it was possible. Last edited by ragamuffin92 : 02-07-2002 at 11:42 AM.

02-07-2002, 05:48 PM	#6
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	That passage about 'some few' surviving was written before Tolkien decided there were 'three or (say) at most seven of them [Balrogs]' altogether. With only seven Balrogs (or three), I don't think more than one survived the War of Wrath. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

02-07-2002, 11:16 AM	#3
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Balrogs were evil Maiar, or fallen Maiar if you will. In the First age of the world Balrogs served the Dark Lord Morgoth, and allied with his forces against the Eldar and Men. The Balrog Gothmog was his High Captian. It seems that some were killed, if that's possible at the end of the First age, and their ranks appear to have dwindled. By the Third Age, I only know of the Balrog in Moria being the only one left, but I may be wrong about that.

02-07-2002, 06:12 PM	#7
GreySeason Sapling Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3	balrogs and of those seven[or three] it is know that some of them allied together. they journeyed to the Grey Haven to seek to follow the Elves across the seas into the West. but their poorly made ships sailed them not into the West but to Earth (where we live). and the Balrogs were so angered by this that they created Rap.

02-14-2002, 12:56 PM	#8
The White Rider Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere in the name of Arda Posts: 23	One of the remaining Balrogs (After the War of Wrath) slept under one of the mountains of Moria, until the Drawfs delved to deep and awoke it. It met its "near" end when it fought Gandalf on the Bridge of Kazad-Dhum. __________________ Guiding everyone I can see... Straight to doom except for me. Last edited by The White Rider : 02-14-2002 at 12:59 PM.