Umberto Eco

[littleadanel]

Instead of going totally off-topic in the Da Vinci Code thread, I thought I'd start this up. I did a search and couldn't find a thread for Eco, so here it goes.

I have read Foucault's Pendulum, The Name of the Rose, Baudolino and The Island of the Day Before; none of his non-fiction works - yet...

So what are the mooters' thoughts about him?

[Lotesse]

He's awesome! Excellent, fascinating and brilliant writer. I still have to finish reading "The Name of the Rose," though; like I said in that other thread I lost my book & still have to buy a new one. I keep hearing rave reviews about Foucault's Pendulum, too, so that's next on my Eco "to read" list. Littleadanel, can you tell us what Pendulum is about? Like, a brief synopsis?

[littleadanel]

Hmm, I'll try...

So, the narrator of the story is a man named Casaubon, writing his doctoral dissertation about the Templar Knights. He gets a job at a book publisher, as a consultant, IIRC, and gets to work with Jacopo Belbo and Diotallevi - the three of them are the main characters. At the publisher's, they encounter the weirdest ideas, conspiracy theories and so on from the people who want to get their books published, and they decide to feed these to their computer, the Abulafia - all these things about secret societies and so on, as a game. The computer generates combinations of these, and they get more and more obsessed with it, carrying it on to the realisation of a cosmic Plan, revolving around the Templar Knights, fitting every fact into it that they happen to encounter...

I don't want to get lost in the details, or spoil anything, so I think I'll stop here... Of course, this is just the main plot (and I didn't tell the ending ); the book is full of symolism and double meanings, and I believe I caught only a little part of them...

What is most extraordinary for me though, is that it shows clearly that anything and everything can be connected to each other in some way or another, and there are conspiracies everywhere, if you really want to see them...

Falagar, I know you loved this book - wanna try your hand at the short summary for Lotsy too? Or Gaffer? I would really like to know what you got out of it.

[Falagar]

Another Ecofanatic here, as you probably know. Have read The Name of the Rose, Foucault's Pendulum, Baudolino, 1/4 of The Isle of the Day Before, and also some of his non-fiction: How To Travel With A Salmon & other essays, Five Moral Pieces as well as parts of The Search for the Perfect Language.
Great guy.

Originally Posted by littleadanel

Falagar, I know you loved this book - wanna try your hand at the short summary for Lotsy too? Or Gaffer? I would really like to know what you got out of it.

My pleasure.

Casaubon is a young Italian student writing a treatise on the Templar Knights in the very late 1960's (during the student riots, spawning one of my favorite lines: To enter a university a year or two after 1968 was like being admitted to the Academie de Saint-Cyr in 1793). He meets Jacobo Belbo in a bar they both frequent, the two become fast friends, and Belbo offers him a position in Garamond, the publishing company he works at. There Casaubon is introduced to the wannabe-Jew and kabbalist Diotavelli, and the three of them combine various conspiracy theories and historical oddities into one big mess they call "the Plan". But what at the outset seems like idle fun soon turns into an obsession, and more dangerous than any of them could ever have imagined...

That's a short introduction, at least. The novels is really a kind of satire, poking fun at conspiracy theories and their followers. It's filled with obscure historical facts and references, great dialogue and a very interesting plot. Can be a bit hard to read though, Eco doesn't try to shove anything down your throat (in addition it's a bit slow-paced, and much of it is told in flash-backs).

[The Gaffer]

Greetings fellow Eco fans!

Far too long since I read Foucault, but those plot summaries look OK to me.

What I love about his fiction is the complexity and depth of symbolism. That and how it is like a feast that goes on for a really long time.

He is very influential in semiotics (the philosophy/study of signs and symbols) and in how they operate in the modern world.

Here's a grand quote about PCs, from 1994 but still applicable today:

Originally Posted by Eco

...."Insufficient consideration has been given to the new underground religious war which is modifying the modern world. It's an old idea of mine, but I find that whenever I tell people about it they immediately agree with me.

"The fact is that the world is divided between users of the Macintosh computer and users of MS-DOS compatible computers. I am firmly of the opinion that the Macintosh is Catholic and that DOS is Protestant. Indeed, the Macintosh is counter-reformist and has been influenced by the 'ratio studiorum' of the Jesuits. It is cheerful, friendly, conciliatory, it tells the faithful how they must proceed step by step to reach--if not the Kingdom of Heaven--the moment in which their document is printed. It is catechistic: the essence of revelation is dealt with via simple formulae and sumptuous icons. Everyone has a right to salvation.

"DOS is Protestant, or even Calvinistic. It allows free interpretation of scripture, demands difficult personal decisions, imposes a subtle hermeneutics upon the user, and takes for granted the idea that not all can reach salvation. To make the system work you need to interpret the program yourself: a long way from the baroque community of revellers, the user is closed within the loneliness of his own inner torment.

"You may object that, with the passage to Windows, the DOS universe has come to resemble more closely the counter-reformist tolerance of the Macintosh. It's true: Windows represents an Anglican-style schism, big ceremonies in the cathedral, but there is always the possibility of a return to DOS to change things in accordance with bizarre decisions; when it comes down to it, you can decide to allow women and gays to be ministers if you want to.

"And machine code, which lies beneath both systems (or environments, if you prefer)? Ah, that is to do with the Old Testament, and is talmudic and cabalistic..."

[littleadanel]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

... and how it is like a feast that goes on for a really long time.

SO well said. Just describing my taste of books.

As for his non-fiction, I found many in the library... Decided to start with The search for the perfect language (might not be 100% accurate, I don't know the English title, but it must be something similar). I just began to read it, but already... wow, wow. My inner linguist is slowly developing thanks to my English classes , and is very glad now.

[Udukhaturz]

I have read only one of Eco's books, "Name of the Rose," and I found him a marvelous writer. He uses such great imagery. Although he gets a little tedious at times with all the obscure history, he more than makes up for it later in the book. I bought "Faucault's Pendulum" but have not gotten a chance to read it yet. That is a "look forward to" read.

[Gordis]

First I have read "The Name of the Rose" and loved it!

Then I read Foucault's Pendulum and liked it very much, but found myself slightly exasperated by constant shifting back and forth in time. I think if Eco just sat and put ALL the pieces in simple straightforward chronological order, the book would have been much improved.

And the last I read "The Island of the Day Before" and I found it dull. Was it just me?

[The Gaffer]

The Name of the Rose is brilliant, and not a bad film either.

I particularly liked the sweet, sweet combination of concepts: access to knowledge and power being so labyrinthine; the debate over the poverty of christ, and the dogmatic struggle within the church; rationalism shedding light into dark corners; and a Lynchian subcurrent of amoral depravity. LUUUUUSH!

Some similar books I also enjoyed: Perfume and Memoirs of a Gnostic Dwarf.

[GreyMouser]

The Name of the Rose, Foucault's Pendulum (my favourite), The Island of the Day Before, (didn't really like), Travels in Hyperreality (essay collection), and struggled through the easier parts of "Kant and the Platypus" (semiotics/philosophy).

[Jabberwock]

Eco is one of my favorite writers. That being said, his fiction does not rate high on my scale of literature achievement. Foucault's Pendulum is possibly the only one of his fiction books I'd claim to like, though I've read many and enjoyed parts of lots of them. I much prefer his non-fiction. It is far less stuffy, much more lively, much more like what I'd ask for in his fiction. Strangely his fiction comes across in a non-fiction tone. Six Walks in the Fictional Wood is great. Serendipity is even better. Eco's talent is for putting forth quirky bits of history, culture, etc in a fascinating way. I find his fiction tends to get text-bookish at times, and therein lies its fault. Bauldalino was positively boring.

[KingTheoden]

my -compatriot- Eco is a great writer.

i consider his masterpiece The Name of the Rose...a beautifull historical book.

Theoden

[Udukhaturz]

King Theoden, always good to see another Eco fan. I think that scene near the end of "The Name of the Rose" where the fire destroyed the abbey and about everything else there was one of the most memorable scenes in literature. Actually, it was so realistic that it could give a person nightmares. The world needs more writers like him.

[Elfhelm]

Hi Eco lovers! Me, too!

I want to add my voice to those who recommend Foucault's Pendulum over The DaVinci Code. It is more difficult, but that's because you are supposed to think for yourself when you read it and pause to look things up. If you do that with that other book you will find that he takes things completely out of context just to score points, but if you do that with Eco you will find deeper and deeper little tidbits and before long you start constructing your own theories.

Let me also recommend the Wikipedia page on Eco and the page on Foucault's Pendulum. A branch from FP that is very fascinating is the list of references and links. If you find yourself with time on your hands there are many references not mentioned and links that need more writing.

[The Gaffer]

Ooh, thanks for that. I used to read Eco's academic stuff on semiotics but had forgotten it all.

[MrBishop]

I echo the Eco-mania

The only fiction piece of his that I've not read is The Isle of the Day Before.

I picked up Faucault's Pendulum on a whim, and was blown away. His writing style is manic and profound. His Italian to English translator gets major Kudos from me!

[Elfhelm]

I have a cool quote from his translator, William Fense Weaver:

"Some of the hardest things to translate into English from Italian are not great big words, such as you find in Eco, but perfectly simple things, "buon giorno" for instance. How to translate that? We don't say "good day," except in Australia. It has to be translated "good morning" or "good evening" or "good afternoon" or "hello." You have to know not only the time of day the scene is taking place, but also in which part of Italy it's taking place, because in some places they start saying "buona sera" ("good evening") at 1:00 P.M. The minute they get up from the luncheon table it's evening for them. So someone could say "buona sera," but you can't translate it as "good evening" because the scene is taking place at 3:00 P.M. You need to know the language but, even more, the life of the country."

— From the Paris Review interview, 2002.

[IronParrot]

I've only read Foucault's Pendulum, and I'm as much in awe of Eco's demonstrable intellect as the next guy, but I'm not convinced I liked it so much as I respected it. It may have been the translation, which I found to be a bit wordy at times in exactly the ways that made me with I was enough of a polyglot to read the book in Italian. But I think the real impediment to my outright enjoying it (although it was certainly a clever book) is that sometimes, Eco's encyclopedaic knowledge overwhelms his writing with name-drops and cunning references. He sets a very high bar in terms of the literacy a reader is expected to have, and while I'm hardly one to ever complain about that, he does strike me as someone who is more comfortable in his academic routine of writing essays about continental philosophy.

I do plan to read some of his other books at some point, and then maybe I could offer a more informed perspective.

[The Gaffer]

I'd heartily recommend Name of the Rose as your next stop on the Ecologue.

Nice to see you, Iron Parrot.