Parallel between LotR and "911"

[FrodoFriend]

*sobs and runs away*

They are people too!

Peace can happen!

[jerseydevil]

I agree they're people - but England tried negotiating with Germany before WWII also - right before he invaded Poland. He ended up killing millions of people. Sometimes war is necessary.

I guess it would be a little easier for people to accept if the people we were fighting against were orcs. But they are people - and I am sorry for the innocent lives that have been lost - but I can go 40 miles and see a 3000 person mass grave right now. Something that was done on purpose, whereas we have NOT tartgeted civilians.

So I';m sorry - just don't have much compassion right now.

[Churl]

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspThe high points of my own outrage have already been hit by others here.&nbsp Instead of trying to echo those same sentiments, I’ll try to add something of my own.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspThe real danger I see here is not religion, but the radical, intolerant corruption of religion.&nbsp This fanaticism, and the desire for supremacy over land and resources, have caused nearly every war throughout history.&nbsp So, FrodoFriend, I agree with you: peace is theoretically possible, when people stop trying to grab what isn’t theirs and when they stop trying to kill everyone who doesn’t believe and live exactly as they do.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspI think that gun-backed greed will be the tougher issue to resolve: people have lodged conflicting claims on land, etc., since the beginning of time.&nbsp In some turf wars, e.g. Nazi Germany’s brutal expansionism, “good” and “evil” are clearly assignable terms; in many modern cases, however, the absolutist claims of both sides are equally groundless (pardon the pun).&nbsp Thus I think the problem of territorial conflicts will be with us for a while.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspPlurality, however, is attainable.&nbsp Consider the countries that live in peace despite the presence of diverse ethnic groups and multiple religions within their borders.&nbsp Any crimes motivated by hatred between these groups are treated as just that: crimes.&nbsp They don’t escalate into civil wars.&nbsp Why, then, can’t this plurality spread to the rest of the world?

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspAmerica is accused of “forcing” its culture on the rest of the world.&nbsp But what “force” — other than the internal desire for a freer, more comfortable way of life — is being exerted?&nbsp The sign of an unhealthy and immature culture (ethnic group, religion, or nation) is the fear of alternatives.&nbsp A power structure becomes dangerous when it censors and prosecutes the viewpoints of the “Other.”&nbsp To put it another way, if the laws and beliefs of the rulers are so superior, then what do they have to fear from peacefully dissenting voices?

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspI don’t assign the word “evil” to anyone who can coexist with his or her neighbor.&nbsp I do apply it without hesitation, however, when someone takes the life of an innocent intentionally — not to mention those of 3,000+ innocents.&nbsp Furthermore, many try to equate the United States’ reaction to the attacks with the attacks themselves.&nbsp This is a flawed criticism because the U.S. is responding to an unprovoked act of aggression.&nbsp It’s the same distinction that exists between a mugger’s attack and the victim’s struggle to disarm the mugger.&nbsp One is evil, the other is not.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspYes, the terrorists were convinced that what they were doing was moral and right … that they were upholding their beliefs by killing the perceived enemies of those beliefs.&nbsp This moral conviction, however, doesn’t absolve them of evil.&nbsp Hitler believed that the concentration camps were “right” and “proper,” a “defensive measure” to protect the Third Reich from perceived threats to his insane ideal of “purity.”&nbsp Just because he believed that, however, does not make it true, nor does it make him any less evil.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspWell, I did as I said I wouldn’t: I revisited the arguments of others, and not very coherently at that.&nbsp My apologies.

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbspAnd please, FrodoFriend, please don’t take this as a mindless flaming of your post.&nbsp I’m merely trying to explain the justifiable anger that the United States feels.&nbsp It’s not anger that’s directed at you.&nbsp I welcome any and all responses from you, or from any of you fine people … the fact that we can debate civilly and intelligently is itself a sign of hope.

[Sirithdal]

The radical Islamic elements perceive the west as being responsible for backing Israel which controls many of their holy sites. They feel that the only way for them to attain preeminence, or even parity, with Israel and the west is to obtain nuclear capability. This is unfortunate and misguided since the
only thing nuclear weapons will get them at this point will be mutual annihilation.

During the early days of Islam the situation was somewhat reversed. Islamic kingdoms were tolerant of other religions and cultures living within their borders whereas the Christian kingdoms were generally intolerant of other religions. This was partly because only those who did not adhere to Islam were required to pay taxes, while the "faithful" were exempt. Obviously, this meant that infidels were relatively welcome since they were the ones paying taxes. The cultural plurality which this policy engendered made Islamic countries much more sophisticated and advanced than their Christian counterparts in europe.

This leads me to believe that somewhere along the line something went very wrong with Islam, something that
caused the disparities which currently exist between our two cultures.

[jerseydevil]

Islam is a smoke screen for the terrorists and the Palestinian crisis and all those countries. Even though most of the terrorists lived in New Jersey - the only reason they did was because they could blend in with the rest of the non-militant muslim population here. People in New Jersey don't think twice about seeing someone in a head scarf or a turban.

They could do a lot to better their society - but they really seem uninterested. They blame the outside for their problems - instead of looking at themselves and trying to take responsibility.

They seem bent on destroying themselves. They live under respressive governments. They bend their religion to keep woman down. The Koran only says for woman to dress modestly - not be covered head to toe or have no association with the outside world.

Look at the new tape that came out - Al Jazeera kept it from the world - claimed it had no news worthiness. After CNN got their hands on it and broadcast it - now they're threatening to sever all ties with CNN. I guess Al Jazeera wasn't the "impartial" news media they claimed to be. In October Bin Ladin, on that tape, basically takes responsibilty for the Twin Towers attack. He also says that our country will fall into ruin.

By the way - unlike other countries - it's my right to be able to either burn the flag (which hopefully will never change) or wave it. I CHOOSE to wave it. It's not a mandate or requirement form the government. Let's see if you could go into Palestine or to Saudi Arabia or Iraq and burn their flag. Let's see if you could really demonstrate peacefully against something there. Their countries even require non-muslim western woman to cover their faces. Do we require them - when they come here - to dress like us????

And Churl - You had some really good points.