What are the powers of the ring?

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by MangoPi

I have to disagree. From a simple ideological point of view; I don't like determinism as justification, just as much as I dislike dues ex mechina.

In the end, Frodo chose to bear the Ring from Rivendale, and then chose the keep it at Mt. Doom. Whether or not any other out could even exist, that is what happened. Frodo kept it.

From a *simple* ideological point of view, I would also have to agree. I've been thinking it over, though, and perhaps where our main disagreement lies is actually as to what is "determinism."

While itself imperfect, consider the Wikipedia definition:

"Determinism is the philosophical proposition that every event, including human cognition and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences."

I don't think this is what most of us are referring to in connection with severe addiction or compulsion. But even if it were, I'd argue that it would not negate the concept or possibility of free will.

[Serenoli]

Originally Posted by TD

Frodo and Sam do not fight for it, it is only in the film that Frodo fights for it. In the book Smeagol hits Sam on the head with a rock, and jumps on the invisible Frodo before biting his finger off. Then Frodo just givesup while Gollum falls in to the fire.

But they do fight. After being knocked down, Sam gets up, to find Smeagol 'fighting like a mad thing with an unseen foe'. And finally, Gollum bites off Frodo's finger as the only way to wrest the ring off him... thats when Frodo gives up, and Gollum, in his victory dance, falls off.

BTW, that article that Jon S. gave was quite interesting, and I've myself never been disappointed in Frodo. In fact, seeing him succumb at last made me feel sorry for him, and admiration that he held out for so long...