01-14-2002, 04:49 PM | #1 |
Hobbit
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Dwarf Rings
Did Tolkien ever write about who received the rings for the Dwarfs and what happened to them?
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01-14-2002, 05:04 PM | #2 |
The Insufferable
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There were seven rings.
There were seven dwarf tribes. The 'seven great dwarf hoards of old' were each said to be based on a ring. It is likely that sauron gave one ring to the reigning lord of each tribe. If there are seven rings, 'for dwarf lords in thier halls of stone' and there were seven dwarf lords, you do the math.
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01-14-2002, 05:08 PM | #3 |
Hobbit
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Yes, I know there were seven. I was just wondering if there was someone out there who knows if Tolkien had written anything else about the dwarf lords.
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01-14-2002, 05:08 PM | #4 |
Elf Lord
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I believe one of the Rings was first given to Durin III.
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01-14-2002, 09:14 PM | #5 |
Halfwitted
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Well, Thror had the last remaining one before Sauron took it from him in Dol Guldur.
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01-14-2002, 10:27 PM | #6 | |
Hobbit
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Thanks FrodoFriend and Inoldolnil. I just got home and looked through the appendix in ROTK. Thrain, Thorin's father had the last ring not in control of Sauron. I guess the other rings must have been recovered by Sauron much earlier. It was interesting to read about how uncoruptable the dwarfs were (ROTK, App. A, pg. 358):
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01-15-2002, 12:37 AM | #7 |
Elven Loremaster
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Whether Durin III got a Ring is questionable. Tolkien says that the Dwarves believed his Ring was given to him by Celebrimbor, but the only detailed accounts of the Rings' history indicate that Sauron gave out all seven of the Rings. Durin III, on the other hand, fought against Sauron.
That the Dwarves of the late Third Age/early Fourth Age believed their ancient king possessed a Ring of Power doesn't mean he really did. They had lost many records, and forgotten much lore. And the Dwarven Ringbearers seldom told anyone about their Rings anyway. |
01-15-2002, 01:27 PM | #8 |
Hobbit
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Thanks Michael. From what I read in App. A of ROTK though, it was very clear that one of the rings went to Durin III (I think), who gave it to Thror, who in turn gave it to Thrain who evidently was captured by Sauron. Is there any more mention of the other rings elsewhere? I'm only familiar with LoTR, Hobbit and Sil, and am interested out of pure curiosity, since Tolkien was clear about what happened to the other rings (the one, the three and the nine). Cheers!
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01-15-2002, 10:53 PM | #9 | |
Elven Loremaster
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Quote:
Some Ring history is provided in Unfinished Tales, and some Ring details are also provided in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien. I wrote an essay last year called "Shhh! It's a secret ring!" It recaps as much as I know and can deduce about Ring history as possible. http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/58090 |
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01-16-2002, 12:37 PM | #10 |
Hobbit
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Thanks for the link and the clarifications Michael.
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01-16-2002, 01:40 PM | #11 |
Elven Warrior
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What I've always wondered is what powers the rings gave the dwarfs. Anybody know?
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01-16-2002, 01:46 PM | #12 |
Hobbit
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The only one I know about is the one Dain I gave to Thror and then to Thrain, which is written about in appendix A of RoTK. If I remember correctly, it says there that this ring could "create" gold as long as you had some gold lying around. It also sounds like the rings made the dwarfs who carried them lust for more wealth. I'm going to check out the link Michael posted, and take a look at HoME when I have a chance. Hopefully there is more there.
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01-16-2002, 10:01 PM | #13 |
Elven Loremaster
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The Ring didn't actually create gold. Thror told Thrain that "it needs gold to breed gold". This is an old truism. "It takes money to make money". Tolkien, however. may have been having one of his private little jokes when he wrote the "it needs gold to breed gold" line, as Norse mythology held that Odin's ring (given to him by a dwarf) would spawn 8 or 9 identical copies of itself every 8 or 9 nights.
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01-20-2002, 03:53 PM | #14 |
Elf Lord
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9, representing the Nine Worlds. Odin cast it away onto his son Baldr's funeral pyre in an extravagant gesture of grief, but it was returned to him by his other son Hermod, after the latter visited his dead brother in cold Niflheim, land of the unworthy dead.
Basking in the joy of knowing something Michael Martinez didn't,
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01-21-2002, 09:06 AM | #15 | |
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01-21-2002, 01:02 PM | #16 |
Hobbit
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Ok, ya got me. I agree that greed for material things is evil, although it sort of seems like this is something that was a fundamental part of being a dwarf - they were getting into spats with others early on over things like necklaces.
What I really meant was that it was interesting their rings didn't compel them to support Sauron in any direct way, or turn them into ringwraiths. If Sauron were really smart, he should have made use of this, but I guess he couldn't really trick people anymore the way he did early on. I also don't think that the good/evil division in ME was always that clearly defined. For example, I certainly wouldn't call Boromir evil, but his actions at the end of FoTR almost resulted in Sauron or Saruman gaining The Ring. |
01-21-2002, 05:36 PM | #17 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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01-21-2002, 11:55 PM | #18 | |
Elven Loremaster
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01-22-2002, 07:15 AM | #19 | |
Elven Warrior
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i'm certainly no tolkien expert, although i would probably attribute the whole good vs. evil thing to the biblical aspects of LOTR. perhaps after the destruction of sauron and the departure of elves, both good and evil were attributes left to men. sorry if that doesn't make complete sense, but i didn't want to be too long-winded. |
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