LotR Discussion Project: Chapters X & XI

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

not only that there were 5 in the north, but the chiefs of the istari ion the north were 5 in number, so maybe even more in the north, just subordinates

[Butterbeer]

well ok: fair enough all - for the momment , but we only have evidence for three to hand - in terms of anger i mean : and i think a 66.6666 etc % "quick to anger" mandate therefore exists to support the supposition!


Radagast the gentle soul : you do not yet know your peril, these wraiths here enclosed will sit on the edge of ruin and discuss the doings of percentages, numbers of istari and their suddenesss of anger of the northern wizardly lines to the Nth degree if encouraged by undue patience!

( by which i mean for my part i'll not take your thread any further down these side alleys of impending fiery doom)


and beware: if you get angry i'll have a full set

very best
BB

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

well ok: fair enough all - for the momment , but we only have evidence for three to hand - in terms of anger i mean : and i think a 66.6666 etc % "quick to anger" mandate therefore exists to support the supposition!

But statistics only work on big numbers, unfortunately: if you've given me this statistics from 1000 Istari, I would most likely be convinced. But from 3?

Radagast the gentle soul : you do not yet know your peril, these wraiths here enclosed will sit on the edge of ruin and discuss the doings of percentages, numbers of istari and their suddenesss of anger of the northern wizardly lines to the Nth degree if encouraged by undue patience!

( by which i mean for my part i'll not take your thread any further down these side alleys of impending fiery doom)


and beware: if you get angry i'll have a full set

very best
BB

I...see.

[Butterbeer]

btw are you quick to anger yourself?

... now be honest here!

*crosses fingers and hopes for a full set*


(apologies: i promise to go back and read some of the discussion points for genuine debate - are you getting angry yet? )

best BB - - over and out.

[Gordis]

Umm, perhaps following CrazySquirrels advice earlier we could move to lighter matters like nazgul horses?

Runs away

[Gordis]

Now I am pouncing at your question, CrazySquirrel - difficult to resist !

Originally Posted by Linaewen

6) Page 585 in LotR: "In that case let Rohan look for its horses" - question is, wouldn't the horses be afraid of the Nazgul, like most animals we know of? The horses of the Nazgul were special, probably bred by Sauron in Mordor, and the fell beasts were... fell. Does it mean the Nazgul may not scare horses? Or some kinds of horses..?

I think nazgul could control to a great extent their aura of fear. It looks like turning fear to a minimum they could ride an ordinary untrained horse.

But there is of course a difference between a random horse used in necessity and a trained nazgul charger. The latter had to be born and bred and trained in Mordor to resist the fear of the nazgul when it was fully turned on (like in the assault of Osgiliath and Minas Tirith)

Now feel free to "pounce" on me...

[CrazySquirrel]

I think that Rohan horses were running free? So how could a nazgul capture a horse? will it ever come close enough?

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

I think that Rohan horses were running free? So how could a nazgul capture a horse? will it ever come close enough?

With an apple or sugar cubes. (and a very big net)

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Linaewen

Was Gandalf immune to his powers? (If so, is it because he’s now Gandalf the White?) Or did he have to actively resist them?

I think some resistance comes from being an wizard, and now one as powerful as Saruman could have been. I don't think Gandalf had to actively resist the voice, but I reckon simply 'being on guard' would suffice as enough resistance. And Gandalf was on guard in dealing with Saruman. He puts it nicely: a guest that had to flee by the roof will think twice before entering that door again. I always thought that was lovely image.

We learn from Gandalf of, what seems to be, Saruman’s inevitable doom by the choices he has made. What, at this point in time, do you think will become of him?

Frankly I thought we would never hear of him again. I was surprised to find out I was wrong. Twice.

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

It's probably cheating to reference later chapters at this stage, but IIRC Aragorn mentions how, as rightful owner of the Stone, he was able to take full control of it. I would imagine that no-one else could.

It brings up quite an interesting aspect of the PalantÃ*r. It would imply that not only the strenght of mind was enough to bend the stone to one's will, but that the mere matter of legal ownership played a role too. Or was Aragorn referring to his rightful ownership because the previous owners were Men of great mental power and that he would have inherited some of that?

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

in UT, it states that the palantiri had their poles and so on, and had to be set into an exact position to show anything other than a blank screen, so was it chance that pippin was able to set the palantir into the proper position on dol baran, or was some other force guiding it?

Gandalf muses somewhere that maybe Saruman had used the PalantÃ*r that much that it was automatically 'connected' to the PalantÃ*r in the Barad-dûr. It is logical to assume that Sauron took measures to ensure that Saruman could look nowhere else but the Barad-dûr, thus forcing the wizard to report to Sauron often.