LOTR in Other Languages

[Nurvingiel]

Whoops, missed a post.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Actually Tolkien wanted foreign translators to make up new names for the characters. Many of the names are English-sounding and he did not mean for them to sound English if his books were translated into other languages. For instance, Tolkien said that the name Baggins are supposed to make you think of a bag. So in the new version of the Swedish LotR trilogy, the Baggins (that Åke Ohlmarks had named Bagger, which makes you think of a ram rather than a bag ) are now know as Secker, since säck means bag.

Some translators have done what Tolkien wanted and translated the names into their respective languages - others have not (or have made up really weird names).

If Tolkien wanted to than I'm okay with it. But Vinbock? I don't think Tolkien intended that. (Am I wrong to think Wine He-goat here? )

What's Sackville-Baggins going to be? Säcksta-Secker? That's rather nice actually. Making Samwise into Samuel distorts the meaning too it seems.

And messing about with Elvish, I don't think Tolkien would have liked that. In this case it doesn't matter what the language of the rest of the book is. Okay, I'll stop ranting about that now. (Until I get to the Hall of Fire... )

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

That's fine with me! (Yay, I got to name the thread! )

I'm looking forward to see how Frodo Baggins comes out in Spanish.

Here are some useful Swedish words for your reading purposes... en alv - an elf, and en dvärg - a dwarf. For a language that allegedly has "ett" for 3/4 of the words, there are a lot of "en" words.

I think it is Señor Baggins.

hole dweller is translated as "habitante del agujero"

[Fat middle]

List of proper nouns "translated" into Spanish, with or without comments:

The Shire – La Comarca
This one makes sense since Comarca is an old word for shire

Middle-earth – La Tierra Media
This one also makes sense because "La tierra de enmedio" would have been much worse

Took – Tuck Weird. It just sound in Spanish like Took does in English..., but I don't think the point of translating it since none of those words have any meaning in Spanish.

Baggins – BolsónIt'd be like a big bag... This one goes without comments

Bag End – Bolsón CerradoI don't think that Cerrado is so oftenly used in Spanish to name places as End is used in English. It hasn't the same meaning either (Cerrado = Closed).

Sackville-Baggins - Sacovilla-Bolsón At least Sacovilla could sound like a last name (Bolsón would be a very odd word for a last name).

The Brandywine river – BrandivinoBrandi comes from brandy (the Cognac bottled in the Sherry shire) and vino is wine.

Brandybuck – BrandigamoGamo is buck. It just sound weird.

Brandy (the drink) in Swedish, is konjak. (Cognac is a type of brandy.) This would make more sense than “vin” at least, even though Brandybuck is obviously not talking about alcohol and ungulates.

I hadn't read that before. I thought that Brandy was just the Spanish Cognac, that sold very well in England at the times of Tolkien

Dunharrow – El Sagrario Sagrario would be close to Sanctuary or Shrine. As a place name I've only seen it used in Western films... No relation with Dunharrow AFAIK.

Gamgee – Gamyi Same explanation as for Took.

Sandyman – ArenasSand=Arena and Arenas is a common last name.


Hobbits – Hobbits
Hobbiton – Hobitton Those are the best by far

[Nurvingiel]

Cool FM.

If you ever met someone with the last name Arenas, would you say "No time for working, but time for wall-propping I see"?

What does "La tierra de enmedio" mean?

[Fat middle]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

What does "La tierra de enmedio" mean?

It'd be the earth (or ground) that is "in the middle" of two others. Middle Earth could be understood so, doesn't it? but La Tierra Media has a more undefined meaning that I think fits best.

[Olmer]

In Russia they have several translations and all of them sound different.
This is the one which more or less close to original.

Три кольца Высшим Эльфам под кровом светил
Three Rings for the High Elves under the starry sky
Семь- властителям Гномов под кровом земли
Seven for the Dawarf-lords under the cover of Earth
Девять - Смертным, чей жребий - молчанье могил,
Nine for Mortals, whose fate is a silence of tombs
И одно - Повелителю гибельных сил.
And One for the Ruler of deadliest force

В царстве Мордора мрачном, где тени легли.
In the land of gloomy Mordor wrapt in shadows
Отыскать их, собрать их, предать их Eму
Тo find them, to gather them , and to give them to Him
Воедино сковать их и ввергнуть во Тьму
To chain them together and to cast into the Darkness
В царстве Мордора мрачном, где тени легли.
In the land of gloomy Mordor wrapt in shadows.

[LickTheEnvelope]

My god... Look at those Norwegian names! And I thought that the Swedish translator had changed the names much.

Haha!
Norwegians and Swedes squabble like Canadians and Americans.

That's great.

This is super interesting I want to have a huge amount of free time to learn some other languages, I slacked on French and Spanish in High School.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

some of these translations are brilliant

i wonder if it has been translated into Gaelic, would be very funny

[Pytt]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Baggins is Lommelund! The Shire is called Hobsyssel! Well, now I have something fun to tell all of my Swedish friends. It's always amusing to make fun of the Norwegians

In another translation Baggins is Sekker, which I think is even worse. I like Lommelund, get a good feeling about it.

Strange you say that! We always think it's amusing to make fun of you swedish too

[Earniel]

List of proper nouns "translated" into Dutch, with comments:

The Shire – De Gouw
Direct translation, so this one makes sense. It's a bit an archaic word, but most Dutch translations in LoTR have that same air, which actually gives LoTR a special feel.

Middle-earth – Midden-aarde
Again, a direct translation. Although I often mess up and say 'Middel-aarde' which would also be correct but could also be translated back to English as 'Waist-earth'. It still can make me grin.

Baggins – Balings
I'm not sure why they did change this one. Balings doesn't sound any Dutcher to me than Baggins would. But hey, it beats the French 'Cul-de-sac'!

Bag End – Balings Laantje
This is no direct translation but fits close nevertheless. The direct translation of 'Balings Laantje' would be Baggins Little Lane. The 'je' at the end is the diminituive form, one of the things I adore about Dutch.

Sackville-Baggins - Buul-Balingsen
Again I'm not sure why this translation was chosen. Buul isn't a name that I'm familiar with.

The Brandywine river – De Brandewijn
A direct translation of Brandywine, both the river and the spirit.

Gamgee – Gewissies
One of the only names that seems very different from the original. But if they were going for giving the name a Dutch feel, they definitely succeeded.

Mirkwood – Demsterwold
This is actually a translation that I prefer more than the original Mirkwood. 'Demster' is IIRC derived from 'Deemster', an archaic word for shadow or dark. 'Wold' is a more germanic term for wood. Demsterwold has this great sinister and creepy feel to it. I loved it from the first time I read it.

Rosie Cotton– Roosje Katoen
Roosje means 'little Rose' so it's certainly fitting. 'Katoen' is the Dutch word for Cotton.

Merry Brandybuck & Pippin Took - Merijn Brandebok & Pepijn Toek
The direct translation of 'Brandebok' in English would be 'Fire-bock'. Definitely one of the more... interesting translations. But it seems to have been the only logical choice for the translation due to its similarity to Brandywine.

'Toek' doesn't have a meaning in Dutch, it's just the same sound of 'Took' written in the way Dutch people would write the sound.

Hobbiton – Hobbitstee
'Stee' is again an archaic word and can still be found in names of Belgian and Dutch places. I'm not sure about the actual meaning, as far as I know it refers to anything from house, city to bed.

Aaaah, old thread, fond memories.

[Nurvingiel]

Demsterwold is a bit creepy-sounding, even though it makes me think "dumpster world".

Cul-de-sac would be more of a (very wrong) translation for Bag End.

Has anyone read French LotR?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Demsterwold is a bit creepy-sounding, even though it makes me think "dumpster world".

Thanks for ruining that for me. I hate you.

Has anyone read French LotR?

Not me, but the subtitles on the movies were both in Dutch and French, so I picked a few things up.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Thanks for ruining that for me. I hate you.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Not me, but the subtitles on the movies were both in Dutch and French, so I picked a few things up.

At the same time? Wouldn't that make half the screen subtitles?
Why not stuff German subtitles in there too? j/k

Now I'm curious about French LotR. Monsieur Bagginse? Noirbois? And lutin has always seemed like an odd word for elf. It makes me think "The Elves and the Shoemaker" elves. The swedish word (alv) is very close to the word for river (älv), but it seems fitting.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

At the same time? Wouldn't that make half the screen subtitles?

Actually, it works rather fine...

Of course, now we know why we're having biiiig screens in our cinemas.

Why not stuff German subtitles in there too? j/k

Actually, I have been wondering about that, with German being our third national language and all. But I suppose they know how to read or understand other languages.

[littleadanel]

Whee, just searched for "hungarian" out of curiosity (my little beloved mother language ) and found far more than I expected! being sooo happy I decided to write & respond (though this thread, for example, wasn't used for months... )

Originally Posted by FrodoFriend

Pretty cool, though I'm not sure about the whole deflector thing... I couldn't figure out what szolganyájat means.

szolganyáj is a compound, szolga = servant, and nyáj = a bunch of sheep... *grabs dictionary* flock. That's it.

[Rían]

fun thread!