Are the snatches of elvish in the book?

friendoftheshire · 12-24-2001, 11:00 PM

Does anyone have the full transcripts of elvish conversations in the movie and their translations ? There were no subtitles ?

friendoftheshire

noldo · 12-25-2001, 07:45 AM

You didn't get the Elvish subtitled? That's weak.

Some of the phrases, like "Noro lim, Asfaloth", are in the books, but most the writers made themselves with the help of Elvish linguistics.

bropous · 12-27-2001, 07:15 PM

The book is riddled with quotes in the elvish languages, but just in a few instances translated in the following text.

Sorry the subtitles were cut off. That would tend to confuse a few folks.....

Tove! · 12-28-2001, 01:50 AM

If you'd like to figure out the elvish languages for yourself, there is a great net-page on Tolkien-languages out there. move.to/ardalambion gives you all known information on something like nine of Tolkiens languages as well as lists of words and sentence structure.

"Ai! UtÃºvienyes"('Ah! I have found it' in Quenya, language of the elves)

Kevin McIntyre · 01-02-2002, 04:23 PM

there are quite a few elvish lines within the story. My favorite is:
elen sila lumenn omentielvo (a star shines on the hour of our meeting) from three in company. The longest elvish (Quenya) verse is the poem that Galdriel recites in Farwell to Lorien - Namarie(farwell).

Ai! lauriÃ« lantar lassi sÃºrinen,
YÃ©ni ÃºnÃ³timÃ« ve rÃ¡mar aldaron!
YÃ©ni ve lintÃ« yuldar avÃ¡nier
mi oromardi lisse-miruvÃ³reva
AndÃºnÃ« pella, Vardo tellumar
nu luini yassen tintilar i eleni
Ã³maryo airetÃ¡ri-lÃ*rinen.
SÃ* man i yulma nin enquantuva?
An sÃ* TintallÃ« Varda OiolossÃ«o
ve fanyar mÃ¡ryat ElentÃ¡ri ortanÃ«
ar ilyÃ« tier undulÃ¡vÃ« lumbulÃ«;
ar sindanÃ³riello caita morniÃ«
i falmalinnar imbÃ« met, ar hÃ*siÃ«
untÃºpa Calaciryo mÃ*ri oialÃ«.
Si vanwa nÃ¡, RÃ³mello vanwa, Valimar!
NamÃ¡riÃ«! Nai hiruvalyÃ« Valimar.
Nai elyÃ« hiruva. NamÃ¡riÃ«!

_______________________________
hymn to Elebereth (Sindarin)

A Elbereth Gilthoniel,
silivren penna mÃ*riel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-dÃ*riel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sÃ* nef aearon!

Wayfarer · 01-02-2002, 09:37 PM

Honestly, I couldn't tell.

At first, I thought "Angband, this must be Quenyan!"

But then, during the aragorn/arwen scene, I concentrated real hard, and I thought I could recognize a few snatches here and there. Although I'm still searching for the common words and basic syntax for sindarin.

I don't believe that it was bs'ed. I'd assume it was just haphazard conglomeration of some sort. Or maybe even done fore real.

bropous · 01-02-2002, 09:44 PM

Heck, I had heard that they worked very hard to make sure the elvish was correct, words and pronunciations alike. However, I can't do Quenya nor Sindarin, so I wouldn't know.

Kevin McIntyre · 01-02-2002, 11:00 PM

apparently they had someone working with the writers to translate sentences to elvish - so I assume it's the real deal.

I did hear Arwen cry "noro lim, noro lim, Asfaloth" when riding her horse which is straight from FOTR - ride on, ride on Asfaloth.
_______________

Michael Martinez · 01-03-2002, 03:06 AM

David Salo is the linguist who helped devise the Sindarin phrases in the movie. It's as close to the real deal as anyone outside the Tolkien family can contrive. Salo is widely recognized as one of the leading Tolkien linguists in the world.

Ã‘Ã³lendil · 01-03-2002, 03:30 AM

I opened up Visualizing Middle-earth the other day and caught on a reference to a Nandorin vocab. list constructed by Salo in something called Other Hands. What is this exactly? The article was written in '99 I believe, is Other Hands still available?

Michael Martinez · 01-03-2002, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inoldonil
I opened up Visualizing Middle-earth the other day and caught on a reference to a Nandorin vocab. list constructed by Salo in something called Other Hands. What is this exactly? The article was written in '99 I believe, is Other Hands still available?

Still available for now. Tolkien Enterprises just sent them a cease and desist order. They are trying to see what TE will allow them to do, in order to decide whether to keep publishing. I don't know if the dictionary is on the Web site, but it may be:

http://otherhands.com/

Lightice · 01-04-2002, 08:34 AM

Spells were quenyan, normal speech was sindarin.

12-24-2001, 11:00 PM	#1
friendoftheshire Sapling Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 4	Are the snatches of elvish in the book? Does anyone have the full transcripts of elvish conversations in the movie and their translations ? There were no subtitles ? friendoftheshire

12-25-2001, 07:45 AM	#2
noldo Elven Icon Maker Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Finland Posts: 517	You didn't get the Elvish subtitled? That's weak. Some of the phrases, like "Noro lim, Asfaloth", are in the books, but most the writers made themselves with the help of Elvish linguistics. __________________ "I can't even think straight!" "Orange is the new pink, and men are the new women."

01-02-2002, 09:37 PM	#6
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Honestly, I couldn't tell. At first, I thought "Angband, this must be Quenyan!" But then, during the aragorn/arwen scene, I concentrated real hard, and I thought I could recognize a few snatches here and there. Although I'm still searching for the common words and basic syntax for sindarin. I don't believe that it was bs'ed. I'd assume it was just haphazard conglomeration of some sort. Or maybe even done fore real. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-02-2002, 09:44 PM	#7
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Heck, I had heard that they worked very hard to make sure the elvish was correct, words and pronunciations alike. However, I can't do Quenya nor Sindarin, so I wouldn't know. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-03-2002, 03:06 AM	#9
Michael Martinez Elven Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 892	David Salo is the linguist who helped devise the Sindarin phrases in the movie. It's as close to the real deal as anyone outside the Tolkien family can contrive. Salo is widely recognized as one of the leading Tolkien linguists in the world. __________________ http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/ http://www.michael-martinez.com/ http://www.merp.com/essays/MichaelMartinez/

12-27-2001, 07:15 PM	#3
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	The book is riddled with quotes in the elvish languages, but just in a few instances translated in the following text. Sorry the subtitles were cut off. That would tend to confuse a few folks.....

12-28-2001, 01:50 AM	#4
Tove! Sapling Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ohio. Posts: 1	If you'd like to figure out the elvish languages for yourself, there is a great net-page on Tolkien-languages out there. move.to/ardalambion gives you all known information on something like nine of Tolkiens languages as well as lists of words and sentence structure. "Ai! UtÃºvienyes"('Ah! I have found it' in Quenya, language of the elves)

01-02-2002, 04:23 PM	#5
Kevin McIntyre Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bree Posts: 148	there are quite a few elvish lines within the story. My favorite is: elen sila lumenn omentielvo (a star shines on the hour of our meeting) from three in company. The longest elvish (Quenya) verse is the poem that Galdriel recites in Farwell to Lorien - Namarie(farwell). Ai! lauriÃ« lantar lassi sÃºrinen, YÃ©ni ÃºnÃ³timÃ« ve rÃ¡mar aldaron! YÃ©ni ve lintÃ« yuldar avÃ¡nier mi oromardi lisse-miruvÃ³reva AndÃºnÃ« pella, Vardo tellumar nu luini yassen tintilar i eleni Ã³maryo airetÃ¡ri-lÃrinen. SÃ man i yulma nin enquantuva? An sÃ* TintallÃ« Varda OiolossÃ«o ve fanyar mÃ¡ryat ElentÃ¡ri ortanÃ« ar ilyÃ« tier undulÃ¡vÃ« lumbulÃ«; ar sindanÃ³riello caita morniÃ« i falmalinnar imbÃ« met, ar hÃsiÃ« untÃºpa Calaciryo mÃri oialÃ«. Si vanwa nÃ¡, RÃ³mello vanwa, Valimar! NamÃ¡riÃ«! Nai hiruvalyÃ« Valimar. Nai elyÃ« hiruva. NamÃ¡riÃ«! _______________________________ hymn to Elebereth (Sindarin) A Elbereth Gilthoniel, silivren penna mÃriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-dÃriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sÃ* nef aearon!

01-02-2002, 11:00 PM	#8
Kevin McIntyre Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bree Posts: 148	apparently they had someone working with the writers to translate sentences to elvish - so I assume it's the real deal. I did hear Arwen cry "noro lim, noro lim, Asfaloth" when riding her horse which is straight from FOTR - ride on, ride on Asfaloth. _______________

01-03-2002, 03:30 AM	#10
Ã‘Ã³lendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I opened up Visualizing Middle-earth the other day and caught on a reference to a Nandorin vocab. list constructed by Salo in something called Other Hands. What is this exactly? The article was written in '99 I believe, is Other Hands still available? __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-04-2002, 08:34 AM	#12
Lightice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 192	Spells were quenyan, normal speech was sindarin.

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