Time Bandits meets Catweazle (ffs)

[drago11]

Wandering through my town centre a few nights ago and i intended to see the FOTR film when i stopped to watch the tv's in a store window... they were showing something that looked like a mix of the movie 'Time Bandits' (lots of good effects and action) and Catweazle, an old tv show from the 70's about a druid who had come from the past (lots of olde worlde dialogue and guys with beards).

I wandered home in a daze

Imagine my surprise when I got home and found a cinema stub in my pocket...

On seeing the film I can only conclude that the director read a 1 page synopsis of FOTR and loosely based a film on it. The problem is not so much what was cut, but raher how the characterisation and plot was mangled by what was left in (cue the venting of spleen)

1 - Bilbos party scene. In the book Bilbo's slipping on the ring is timed with a large explosion of fireworks. In the film he just disappears... this changes the effect completely

2 - Why did they change the classic scene from the prancing pony when Frodo gets up to sing 'There is an inn, a merry old inn' and only then slips on the ring... in the film he just ,er, puts it on like.

3 -The council of elrond scene. Missed out ALL the best dialogue from the FOTR (in my opinion) . Made out as if the members were driven to bickering by the ring... this surely is not so... lost whole meaning of scene.No mention of history of ring or reasons why it could not be gotten rid of in other ways. A PIVOTAL scene desroyed.

4 - Lothlorien.This scene was going well until Paltrow fluffs the MOST IMPORTANT LINE... rant, rant, 'I have passed the test... I will diminish and remain Galadriel'. Did anyone else notice that there was not a second's pause between the dialogue before that when she was ranting, bein tempted by the ring and this 'realization' line... this lack of timing totally killed the whole scene for me and indicates very poor direction. Also why no menion of gifts from Galadriel to rest of fellowship or the moving theme of Gimlis affection for her?

5 - Aragorn saying goodbye to Frodo... dont even get me started on this little bit of Ad Libbing and how it affects plot and characterisation.

6 - Gandalfs meeting a BUTTERFLY?? wtf

7 - Frodo solving doors of moria riddle rather than Merry.

7.5 - Merry dropping a whole hardware store down the shaft instead of 1 stone (this is, i guess, a minor whinge)

8 - The fight at Weathertop, which took place somewhere else in the film (in some ruins, Minas Anor?), why not just have it on the feet of Weathertop like in the book? (If they had even bothered to menion Weathertop in the film ( or the name of the river Anduin ffs)

9 - No poetry, no songs (apart from snippet of Gandalf singing 'The road goes ever on and on'). Without the 'Reforged shall be sword that was broken, the crownless again shall be king' Poem the character of Aragorn is shorn of all history and mystery.


I understand they had to cut alot of material and i'll let others debate the merits of Arwens role and the cutting Of Bombadil and the cave troll 'incident' .

For me the only part of the film that enhanced my reading of the book was Boromir and how much like Denethor he was... and this was just incidental.

To my mind this directors reading of the book was without any of the genius and magic of tolkien... though i did enjoy time bandits.

Cheers

[Comic Book Guy]

This is Peter Jacksons movie, not Tolkiens. Its his adaption and so he can do whatever he wishes with it.

1 - Bilbos party scene. In the book Bilbo's slipping on the ring is timed with a large explosion of fireworks. In the film he just disappears... this changes the effect completely

Not really, all the Hobbits would have been just as surprised and confused if it had fireworks or not.

Why did they change the classic scene from the prancing pony when Frodo gets up to sing 'There is an inn, a merry old inn' and only then slips on the ring... in the film he just ,er, puts it on like.

Time issues, singing lessons for Elijah Wood would have used up a lot of production time, the pacing would have been disturbed, it would look camp and strange. The scene in the movie still shows the will of the ring.

The fight at Weathertop, which took place somewhere else in the film (in some ruins, Minas Anor?), why not just have it on the feet of Weathertop like in the book? (If they had even bothered to menion Weathertop in the film ( or the name of the river Anduin ffs)

The fight at Weathertop was in weathertop in the original text, not at 'Minas Anor' (Minas Tirith). It may not be called Weathertop but is called its true name, Amon-Sul.

Lothlorien.This scene was going well until Paltrow fluffs the MOST IMPORTANT LINE... rant, rant, 'I have passed the test... I will diminish and remain Galadriel'. Did anyone else notice that there was not a second's pause between the dialogue before that when she was ranting, bein tempted by the ring and this 'realization' line... this lack of timing totally killed the whole scene for me and indicates very poor direction. Also why no menion of gifts from Galadriel to rest of fellowship or the moving theme of Gimlis affection for her?

Its Blanchett, not Paltrow. The timing of the lines is relative to the original text.

I understand they had to cut alot of material and i'll let others debate the merits of Arwens role and the cutting Of Bombadil and the cave troll 'incident' .

Arwens role was expanded to keep the Feminists happy. Bombadil was cut because it didn't bring forward the theme of the destruction of the ring and would have added another half hour to the movie. The Fellowship are infact attacked by a cave Troll along with Uruks in Moria.

[Ben]

Yeah, CBG took care of most of that.

3 -The council of elrond scene. Missed out ALL the best dialogue from the FOTR (in my opinion) . Made out as if the members were driven to bickering by the ring... this surely is not so... lost whole meaning of scene.No mention of history of ring or reasons why it could not be gotten rid of in other ways. A PIVOTAL scene desroyed.

They told the history of the ring in the prologue, which got most of the exposition out of the way from the start. The average audience would not really be able to tolerate a whole long history in the middle of the film. The Council of Elrond, in its entirety, would take up close to an hour, I believe. They wisely included the bit about Saruman cut in with the hobbits' journey. They did explain why it had to be destroyed in Mordor - they debunked Boromir's plan to use the Ring to help them, and they explained why it couldn't stay in Rivendell. They got the point across.

6 - Gandalfs meeting a BUTTERFLY?? wtf

This is interesting. I assumed that the butterfly informed Gwaihir the Eagle-lord that Gandalf was at Isengard. Maybe I'll start a thread about this...

7.5 - Merry dropping a whole hardware store down the shaft instead of 1 stone (this is, i guess, a minor whinge)

Uh, no... that was Pippin. I know they looked similar, but did you miss the classic "Fool of a Took" line from both the film and novel?

9 - No poetry, no songs (apart from snippet of Gandalf singing 'The road goes ever on and on'). Without the 'Reforged shall be sword that was broken, the crownless again shall be king' Poem the character of Aragorn is shorn of all history and mystery.

The songs are not essential to the story. They would've added another half-hour to the film, and would seem corny and out-of-place. I'm glad they cut them. I've heard Aragorn will develop more in TTT - they're re-forging Anduril in the next film, so maybe the rhyme will be in there.

[drago11]

The appeal and richness of the books comes from Tolkiens imagination which expresses itself in imagery which he finds best expression for in songs and poems like many other storytellers.Especially since he got the inspiration for his stories largely from Norse myths which were full of poems and songs

Originally posted by bmilder




The songs are not essential to the story. They would've added another half-hour to the film, and would seem corny and out-of-place. I'm glad they cut them. I've heard Aragorn will develop more in TTT - they're re-forging Anduril in the next film, so maybe the rhyme will be in there.

quote:
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Why did they change the classic scene from the prancing pony when Frodo gets up to sing 'There is an inn, a merry old inn' and only then slips on the ring... in the film he just ,er, puts it on like.
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CBG says that "Time issues, singing lessons for Elijah Wood would have used up a lot of production time, the pacing would have been disturbed, it would look camp and strange. The scene in the movie still shows the will of the ring."
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Tolkien did not, i think imagine Frodo as having the voice of an angel, the actor did not need to sound like Pavorroti.For the lack of a few seconds of dialogue they changed the whole tone of the prancing pony scene


Have any of u guys noticed that Tolkien released a tape of himself doing JUST the songs and poetry from the LOTR.I guess he kinda thought they added something.

The lack of songs is indicative of the way in which the movie has been turned into an action adventure shorn of all the things that made the book great. It is easy to take a plot as good as LOTR and make it into a film that sells well to peple who have not read the book, it has pace, characterisation and plot (the book that is).What the director has done is just lift out parts of the plot that suit him and dumb down the rest in the mistaken belief that cinema audienes could not appreciate subtlety in plot and characterisation. (This is a generous intepretation, perhaps he is just ****-ee)

Btw, why are they reforging Anduril in TTT? It was reforged by the elves in Rivendell (FOTR). And how are the gonna get Galadriels scabard on it? Is Blanchett gonna turn up in say, Umbar, and hand it to Aragorn, heck why not! She can bring the seven dwarves complete with rings with her (lol)

[Ben]

All right, you're obviously entitled to your own opinion. It's just funny that the majority of people that I've seen bash it give a list of reasons and then get half of the facts wrong .

[Comic Book Guy]

Not to mention Hasty, confusing sentance structure.

[Reverie]

CBG Do you really believe that Arwen's screen time had to do with angry feminists? I assumed that 'they' were trying to put a little more eye candy in the film and that should anger the fems more than anything. That said I think Tyler did a good job and that it was a good idea to intro her to the non-readers.

[drago11]

At least i can spell ' sentEnce'

[bropous]

Arright, arright, most of us make typos and misspell from time to time. Point not moot.

1. Gandalf threw up fireworks to cover Bilbo's slipping the Ring on.

2. They probably changed the Pranbcing pony scene to save time. Acceptable to me.

3. The council of Elrond IS a pivotal scene as filmed. The Ring seeming to spur dissention among the enemies of Sauron works well with the flow of the film. Agreed with above post: Most of the conversation at the Council is exposition, which had mostly been covered already.

4. The timing of Galadriel saying she passed the test worked, again, in the pacing of the film. Heck, by this time, a lot of folks were starting to look at their watches and the scenes of Lothlorien had to be shaved to keep failing interests. As for the gifts, I too would have changed that somewhat. However, Gimli's enchantment can be covered in The Two Towers effectively, as well as the developing friendship between he and Legolas, already groused about in another thread. Maybe we should wait until the other two films are seen before making a blanket judgement.

5. Aragorn's farewell to Frodo: Worked just fine. Showed Aragorn's greater inner strength when compared to Boromir.

6. Gandalf spoke to a moth, not a butterfly. okay, admittedly, minor point. Recall, however, that Gandalf received his summons to Orthanc through Radagast, and Gandalf told The Brown Wizard to send all messages, via his friends the beast and birds and creatures, to him at Isengard. I have heard rumor that Radagast is included in The Two Towers, and this may be tied together in flashback.

7. Frodo solving the mystery of the door at Moria? Minor point. However, had that scene been closer to the original, it would have looked simply as a re-work of the [well-scripted, IMO] Moria door scene from the Bakshi film.

8. The fight at Weathertop DID take place at Amon Sul [Weathertop]. However, it occured in a dell at the foot of the hill, true. Again, minor point. The location still worked.

9. The poetry and songs can be discovered by those who read the books after seeing the film. Again, they are not integral to the story, and as most concerned ancient elven heroes and the like, the audience may have been confused by additional "foreign" names which have no real part in the story as a whole.

Just a few Entingish opinions...from Minas Tirith here at the foot of Mount Mindolluin [Pikes Peak]...best wishes all!

[Kevin McIntyre]

Arwen was always an integral part of the story (in tolkiens mind). Remember the LOTR was written from a hobbits point of view, and from there Arwen isn't seen much. The movie is not from a hobbits point of view, thats why we see in real time the efforts of Gandalf to discover the nature of the ring, Saruman's treachery, and the importance of the Aragorn and Arwens relationship.