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Old 12-14-2004, 03:30 PM   #21
Elemmírë
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain
It was Thingol's fault that Doriath was destroyed, not Hurin's.
It was a lot of people's faults. Hurin was admittedly a thrall of Morgoth, unwilling as it was. He says to Thingol,

Quote:
Receive now, lord, the Necklace of the Dwarves, as a gift from one who has nothing, and as a memorial of Hurin of Dorlomin. For now my fate is fulfilled and the purpose of Morgoth achieved; but I am his thrall no longer.
It can be more than reasonably argued that Hurin unwillingly served Morgoth's purposes. In Doriath to a degree, but especially in Gondolin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telcontar Dunedain
As for the other point's, the Oath of Feanor would not have harmed Morgoth if Maedhros had avaded capture, that was the oath working against the Son's purpose.
Possibly true, but speculation none the less. It's hard to guess what would have been different had he not been captured. I would have to guess that he would not have abdicated... Though the positives and negatives of that is also pure speculation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telcontar Dunedain
And with Gwindor, Beleg being killed was probably to do with Morgoth's curse upon Hurin's kin, as was the destuction of Nargothrond.
You can't refute that Gwindor led him to Nargothrond. If Gwindor had not been there, how could he have found Nargothrond? Theoretically, he couldn't have. And if Gwindor had not been there with him, Turin would never have gained acceptance into the kingdom.

Once again, I'm not saying that any of them were consciously serving Morgoth. All the same, they all seem pretty pivotal in the destruction of a lot of the Elvish kingdoms, and I think it merits consideration...
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Old 12-15-2004, 06:00 AM   #22
Durin1
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It has already been mentioned that thrall-elves were deliberately released by Morgoth to fulfil his purposes. Could Morgoth have released Gwindor so that he would meet Turin, thus aiding his curse? Hum....

Although Gwindor was in a pretty bad state, I believe that he was relatively healed when he came back to Nargothrond, although he could never forget his torment.

Gwindor continued to fight valiantly, and seems to have recognised the flaws in Turin's "open warfare" policy, and tried to prevent Turin from constructing the bridge. He can't have been too bound to Morgoth.
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