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#1 |
Enting
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Back Home!!
Posts: 57
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Sauron Q ( minor spoiler)
So...um...I haven't read the Sil yet and I don't recall it being mentioned in LOTR....but, when Sauron appears in the begining of the film wearing the ring why is he visible? My guess is that it's his ring so he can do with it what he will and invisibility is probably a small thing to overcome....yes?
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#2 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 192
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I believe, that that's becouse he was the maker of the Ring, and becouse Rings power is actually his own power, it can't really affect him, he just can use it in way he wishes.
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#3 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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I had some theories on why the ring actually made mortals invisible, but they revolve around supposed metaphysical models and regression into the hidden realm, so I'll agree with the above.
Notice that gandalf, elrond, and galadriel were visible while wearing thier rings, while the nazgil were invisible even without them.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
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#4 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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This brings up one of the issues with the ring that has always confused me. When anyone puts it on they become invisible, and so do their clothes. Yet the dark riders cloaks are visible! Is this because their rings only work on their bodies, and if so, are they naked in the wraith world?
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#5 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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That only mortals are made invisable by the Rings of Power is an attractive idea, Wayfarer. It's probably also in the LotR, but I don't remember clearly.
As far as the Ringwraiths go I think it has to be understood that the clothes you can see are clothes wholly of the Seen World, while their bodies are of the Unseen World, the 'other side', along with whatever clothes they are wearing in that world. When Frodo puts on the Ring under Weathertop he beholds the Ringwraiths as they are on the other side: haggard kings and sorcerers with long grey mantles. Since they are a part of that other world, they are considered to be made up of 'nothingness' by folks on our side, and they need stuff from our side in order to physically interact with us. They need to shape their nothingness. Hence hooded cloaks and the like. Their terror (according to The Hunt For The Ring in Unfinished Tales) was actually much greater when they went abroad unseen, but they needed to be subtle in the North. They desperately needed to gather information about Shire and Baggins. The Ringwraiths were permanently invisable, as far as their 'actual' bodies are concerned. When Frodo puts on the Ring, he's only half in the wraith-world. The Ringwraiths have long since faded away, and their Rings were with Sauron. (This too can be found in Unfinished Tales, I think).
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#6 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 9
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![]() Those three rings were made by Celebrimbor who was cheif of the Elven smiths. Sauron had no part in their making .
The three Elvish rings were never affected by the One Ring because Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf never wore them so long as Sauron had the One in his possession. This is why they were visible. If Sauron would have regained the One then the three wearers would have been revealed to his malice and would succumb to the power of the One. |
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#7 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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That's not entirely true. Frodo sees Galadriel wearing her ring while Sauron is gathering his strength.
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#8 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 9
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![]() Galadriel was wearing the ring Nenya, but Sauron while he was gathering strength did not possess the One Ring. Therefore they were not under the power of the Ring.
The Three were never affected at all by the One Ring, because, as I stated, their owners never wore them so long as Sauron retained the One. When it was taken from him at the end of the Second Age, the Three were removed from hiding and their bearers were able to use them during most of the Third Age for the purposes that were originally intended by Celebrimbor. The purposes was the ability to make, heal, and preserve. Sauron did not need to find the Three. He only needed the One to make certain his victory. |
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#9 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,176
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Ah, but with the unmaking of the One Ring, the power of the Three Rings were diminished, not broken. All three went into the West.
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
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#10 | |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 10
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Quote:
The Nuzgal don't wear rings. Their rings are worn by Sauron. The nine had worn their rings for so long that their bodies had faded (men are the weakest in character remember, and so they fade quicker than other mortals) and have become completely under the control of Sauron. Graham |
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#11 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,176
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Hmmm. It was my understanding that the Ringwraiths still wore the Nine Rings given to mortal men, that only four of the Seven Rings for the dwarf-lords had been recovered by Sauron, the rest being destroyed by dragons...
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
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#12 |
Enting
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Back Home!!
Posts: 57
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![]() As far as the invisibility of clothing, I figure it's like in most RPGs and everything on that person vanishes. I mean what good would invisibility be if you had to run around naked and w/o armor? ![]() |
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