Free Will and Turin Turambar

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

I wouldn't say he bore Morgoth's malice more than anyone. I'd say Hurin and his kin did. I'd say he bore Glaurungs hate more than anyone, but not Morgoth's.

Last time I checked, Turin was Hurin's kin...

Why would he have borne Glaurung's hate more than anyone else? The only thing I can remember him doing to Glaurung (and I haven't read the story too recently... I can never seem to get past Tol-in-Gaurhoth anymore ) is killing him... And by then it's too late for Glaurung to hate much of anyone...

[Durin1]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Last time I checked, Turin was Hurin's kin...

Why would he have borne Glaurung's hate more than anyone else? The only thing I can remember him doing to Glaurung (and I haven't read the story too recently... I can never seem to get past Tol-in-Gaurhoth anymore ) is killing him... And by then it's too late for Glaurung to hate much of anyone...

Maybe Glaurung had some sort of premonition that Turin was a danger to him: he did, after all, wear the Dragon-helm (which was said to have been made in defiance of Glaurung).

[Durin1]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

I've heard of this destiny of Turin, but I've never actually found it anywhere. Where is it? What is it? Is it an Elvish prophecy, one given by Men, or by the Valar?

Yes, he does bear more of Morgoth's malice, but is this necessarily because Morgoth hated him more than anyone else? Could it have been rather that Morgoth could effect him more than he could effect others?

Discussions on Turin's destiny occur sporadically in a couple of the HoMe books. I'll have to have a search to locate exactly where.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Last time I checked, Turin was Hurin's kin...

Why would he have borne Glaurung's hate more than anyone else? The only thing I can remember him doing to Glaurung (and I haven't read the story too recently... I can never seem to get past Tol-in-Gaurhoth anymore ) is killing him... And by then it's too late for Glaurung to hate much of anyone...

What I meant was Turin alone didn't bear Morgoth's hate more that anyone else. Hurin and his kin did, not just Turin.
With Glaurung he alone defied him at the fall of Nargothrond. And as Durin said, Turin wore the Dragon Helm wich was in defiance of him.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Durin1

Discussions on Turin's destiny occur sporadically in a couple of the HoMe books. I'll have to have a search to locate exactly where.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Telcontar Dunedain

With Glaurung he alone defied him at the fall of Nargothrond.

Hey... Fingon shot Glaurung...

Then again, Fingon's already dead...

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

But when Fingon shot at Glaurung he wasn't full grown to man/dragonhood. When Turin defied him he was at the height of his power.

[Elemmírë]

Fingon still shot him.

I'd think that being shot when just a child would have some serious psychological damage. I'm surprised poor Glaurung even got over it...

*reads post*

*reads the last few posts*

Wow. That was horribly Off Topic.