Elbereth Gilthoniel

Balrog_of_Morgoth · 05-13-2003, 07:09 PM

I really appreciate all the references to Valinor and the undying lands and the Valar - especially in the extended edition. That stuff cannot mean much to the average viewer. They probably never give it another thought.

I wish they would have mentioned Varda in some manner. I've always found the references to her as Elbereth to be quite beautiful and bittersweet. When they call to her in song and at need it speaks volumes regarding the First Age and the times before that.

I wish Galadriel or maybe Frodo would have called to her or mentioned her.

I also would like to hear the dialogue of Gandalf musing about Tirion and Feanor while they are riding Shadowfax to Minas Tirith. I love the references to the Elder Days during LOTR. It adds such sorrow and depth.

Shadowfax · 05-13-2003, 08:18 PM

Yeah, I also really appreciated the various references in both films.

Anglorfin · 05-13-2003, 09:57 PM

Depending on how PJ does it, Sam should make a reference to Elbereth in the who episode with Shelob. That is depending on how PJ does it . . .

LadyGreenleaf22 · 05-13-2003, 10:39 PM

yeah, I think Frodo does too...In the books, Frodo says it before the Nazgul stabs him...

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-14-2003, 12:16 AM

Frodo mentions First-Age figures many times. PJ doesn't seem to appreciate it, though...

Artanis · 05-14-2003, 02:07 AM

I'd love to hear Frodo speak about Elbereth too, or Sam.

We already have some goodies: Arwen mentions the Valar in TTT, Galadriel gives to Frodo 'the light of Eärendil' in FotR, and in FotR extended Legolas speaks of Morgoth, and Aragorn sings about Luthien.

straight_face · 05-14-2003, 06:56 PM

Perhaps Frodo will shout Elvish in Shelob's Lair like he did in the book. (He did do it at that part, didn't he?)

Anglorfin · 05-14-2003, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
I'd love to hear Frodo speak about Elbereth too, or Sam.

We already have some goodies: Arwen mentions the Valar in TTT, Galadriel gives to Frodo 'the light of Eärendil' in FotR, and in FotR extended Legolas speaks of Morgoth, and Aragorn sings about Luthien.

LoL!

I love the movie's abridged version of Aragorn's Lay of Luthien . . .

Frodo: "Strider, what is that?"

Aragorn: "It is the Lay of Luthien, fairest of all things to walk the earth."

Frodo: "What happened to her."

Aragorn: "She died . . ."

Silpion · 05-18-2003, 03:48 PM

Hopefully in "The Return of the King" when Sam and Frodo ride to the Havens they will have something similar to the elves singing

Quote:

A! Elbereth Gilthoniel!
silivren penna miriel
o menel aglar elenath,
Gilthoniel, A! Elbereth!
We still remember, we who dwell
In this far land beneath the trees
The starlight on the Western Seas.

How can this be left out? (. . . I know, very easily)

Lizra · 05-18-2003, 07:39 PM

Yeah!

"She died..." sort of leaves you hanging! I usually start a low snicker at that! Poor thing! She died

I just posted in "Tolkiens vision/ literal translation" thread about how I really missed Frodo saying "O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!" at Weathertop. When he was laying there making contorted faces, those beautiful three words would have filled the time well, plus given another oportunity for a Nazgul shriek.

It wouldn't have mattered that some people didn't understand (the words). Movies with some mystery are more interesting. (IMO)

Elvengirl · 05-18-2003, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
When he was laying there making contorted faces, those beautiful three words would have filled the time well, plus given another oportunity for a Nazgul shriek. It wouldn't have mattered that some people didn't understand (the words). Movies with some mystery are more interesting. (IMO)

hehe, his constipation look

lol

yeah, I was looking forward to the flight to the ford scene
"By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair you shall have neither the RIng nor me!"
That was a disapoointment

But I was very glad to see what was put in the film

***Earniel*** · 05-20-2003, 03:46 PM

I hope by that last sentence you didn't mean you liked the replacing line in the movie.

'If you want him come and claim him' still makes me shudder when I hear it. Why so lame a comment? Why? *cries*

Anyway... I always liked it how in the book just naming Elbereth seemed to scare the darkness and nazgul away. It has so much more depth. I hope that it at least surfaces a little in the third movie. That would be nice.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-20-2003, 05:58 PM

If Elbereth does not make an 'appearance', I will be very put out.

I'm fairly certain that I will.

Lalaith · 05-21-2003, 12:34 PM

Actually I have to say: When I first read the books I didn't understand the hints neither. (okay, book related)
But now I really appreciate the hints in the movie.

Elvengirl · 05-21-2003, 07:31 PM

Oh, me neither, until I read The Silmarillion. Now I have to read LOTR again to make sure I understand the history of everything and everyone.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-22-2003, 10:07 PM

Hehehe. I think it'll take a lot more than that.

Ruinel · 05-23-2003, 06:47 AM

I was posting at another site for a while (really need to get back and post there again) and was explaining all the referrences in a separate "History" folder so that the newbies would understand better. I think it was appreciated.

But I feel like the movie has dumped most referrences to the Valar. I don't know why.

05-13-2003, 07:09 PM	#1
Balrog_of_Morgoth Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Parkersburg WV Posts: 110	Elbereth Gilthoniel I really appreciate all the references to Valinor and the undying lands and the Valar - especially in the extended edition. That stuff cannot mean much to the average viewer. They probably never give it another thought. I wish they would have mentioned Varda in some manner. I've always found the references to her as Elbereth to be quite beautiful and bittersweet. When they call to her in song and at need it speaks volumes regarding the First Age and the times before that. I wish Galadriel or maybe Frodo would have called to her or mentioned her. I also would like to hear the dialogue of Gandalf musing about Tirion and Feanor while they are riding Shadowfax to Minas Tirith. I love the references to the Elder Days during LOTR. It adds such sorrow and depth. __________________ Fingolfin: The Mighty Elven Lord who challenged Morgoth to single combat!

05-13-2003, 08:18 PM	#2
Shadowfax The Fleet-Footed Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: British Columbia Posts: 913	Yeah, I also really appreciated the various references in both films. __________________ Jesus saved me "To remain ignorant of things that happened before you were born is to remain a child" (Cicero, 106-43 B.C.) "Art is a lie which makes us realize the truth" (Picasso)

05-13-2003, 09:57 PM	#3
Anglorfin Alasailon Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: college Posts: 861	Depending on how PJ does it, Sam should make a reference to Elbereth in the who episode with Shelob. That is depending on how PJ does it . . . __________________ "and then this hobbit was walking, and then this elf jumped out of a bush and totally flipped out on him while wailing on his guitar." "Anglorfin was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of anger; his eyes were bright and keen, and his voice like music; on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was great skill."

05-13-2003, 10:39 PM	#4
LadyGreenleaf22 Hobbit Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 35	yeah, I think Frodo does too...In the books, Frodo says it before the Nazgul stabs him... __________________ ~LadyGreenleaf "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused"

05-14-2003, 12:16 AM	#5
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Frodo mentions First-Age figures many times. PJ doesn't seem to appreciate it, though... __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

05-14-2003, 02:07 AM	#6
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	I'd love to hear Frodo speak about Elbereth too, or Sam. We already have some goodies: Arwen mentions the Valar in TTT, Galadriel gives to Frodo 'the light of Eärendil' in FotR, and in FotR extended Legolas speaks of Morgoth, and Aragorn sings about Luthien. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

05-14-2003, 06:56 PM	#7
straight_face Enting Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Angband Posts: 91	Perhaps Frodo will shout Elvish in Shelob's Lair like he did in the book. (He did do it at that part, didn't he?) __________________ 'There was no need. He halted just by us and looked down at us. "Gandalf!" I said at last, but my voice was only a whisper. Did he say: "Hullo, Pippin! This is a pleasant surprise!" No, indeed! He said: "Get up, you tom-fool of a Took! Where, in the name of wonder, in all this ruin is Treebeard? I want him. Quick!"' 'What are we going to do now then?' asked Pippin, undaunted by the wizard's bristling brows. "Knock on the door with your head, Peregrin Took,' said Gandalf. 'But if that does not shatter them, and I am allowed a little peace from foolish questions, I will seek for the opening words.' 'Fool of a Took!' he growled. 'This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party. Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuisance. Now be quiet!'

05-18-2003, 07:39 PM	#10
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Yeah! "She died..." sort of leaves you hanging! I usually start a low snicker at that! Poor thing! She died I just posted in "Tolkiens vision/ literal translation" thread about how I really missed Frodo saying "O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!" at Weathertop. When he was laying there making contorted faces, those beautiful three words would have filled the time well, plus given another oportunity for a Nazgul shriek. It wouldn't have mattered that some people didn't understand (the words). Movies with some mystery are more interesting. (IMO) __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 05-18-2003 at 07:43 PM.

05-20-2003, 03:46 PM	#12
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I hope by that last sentence you didn't mean you liked the replacing line in the movie. 'If you want him come and claim him' still makes me shudder when I hear it. Why so lame a comment? Why? cries Anyway... I always liked it how in the book just naming Elbereth seemed to scare the darkness and nazgul away. It has so much more depth. I hope that it at least surfaces a little in the third movie. That would be nice. __________________ We are not things.

05-20-2003, 05:58 PM	#13
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	If Elbereth does not make an 'appearance', I will be very put out. I'm fairly certain that I will. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

05-21-2003, 12:34 PM	#14
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	Actually I have to say: When I first read the books I didn't understand the hints neither. (okay, book related) But now I really appreciate the hints in the movie. __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

05-21-2003, 07:31 PM	#15
Elvengirl Mirthful Maiden Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rivendell Posts: 1,252	Oh, me neither, until I read The Silmarillion. Now I have to read LOTR again to make sure I understand the history of everything and everyone. __________________ The Elves represent, as it were, the artistic, aesthetic, and purely scientific aspects of the Humane nature raised to a higher level than is actually seen in Men.~ J.R.R. Tolkien Wanna play? www.thievesguild.com

05-22-2003, 10:07 PM	#16
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Hehehe. I think it'll take a lot more than that. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

05-23-2003, 06:47 AM	#17
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	I was posting at another site for a while (really need to get back and post there again) and was explaining all the referrences in a separate "History" folder so that the newbies would understand better. I think it was appreciated. But I feel like the movie has dumped most referrences to the Valar. I don't know why.

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